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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
The 2002 Super Bowl winning Tampa Bay Buccaneers led by first year coach Jon Gruden
Quote:
In January 2002, after losing in the wild card round to the Eagles for the second consecutive year, the Buccaneers fired head coach Tony Dungy.[1][2] After a recruiting effort aimed at former Jets coach Bill Parcells, Tampa Bay settled on Raiders coach Jon Gruden in exchange for two first round draft picks (2002, 2003), two second round picks (2002, 2004) and US$8 million in cash payments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season

The 2015 Super Bowl winning Denver Broncos led by first year head coach Gary Kubiak
Quote:
On January 12, 2015, one day after the Broncos' 24–13 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in the Divisional round of the 2014 playoffs, the Broncos and head coach John Fox decided to mutually part ways. Fox compiled a 49–22 record in four seasons (including the playoffs), led the Broncos to four consecutive AFC West division titles, a first-round bye in three consecutive seasons as well as a berth in Super Bowl XLVIII, but lost in the Divisional round of the playoffs in three of his four seasons as head coach.[4] Fox departed with a .719 winning percentage in his four seasons as head coach — the highest in franchise history.[5] Four days later (January 16), Fox was hired as the new head coach of the Chicago Bears.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Denver_Broncos_season



You forgot Siefert. And Don McCafferty.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:44 pm 
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1. Disagree re kicking the ball at the five. If you recover it likely would take forty seconds to actually get back to the five. The key was that passes needed to go into the EZ. Should’ve been quick fades to Bryant.

2. Disagreed (not with OP) that we played zone tackle the catch. Early on we played man and were beat by Bortles rushing. Then we started with Zone. Key was to continue man but Cam needed to hold the point.

3. Don’t disagree that Tomlin sucks and lives in his fears. It’s who he is. When the hips are down he always wants to avoid mistakes over taking risks. This was summed up by the series after the blocked punt and the d vision to go with Rogers over Bryant.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Tomlin is incompetent in several of the components required to excel at his job. Not going to explain the part of the brain chemistry, the areas where he is lacking, the areas where he is strong. The Jaguars exposed our defense and coaching staff. Their brilliant and well thought out opening drive exposed Dupree as a failure, the inside linebackers as useless and our DBs slow on support. Worse, they outsmarted our coaching staff over and over again all game. The game plan worked to a charm even understanding how to handle the coin toss and which goal to defend. Think about it, they wanted the ball, they wanted to expose our defense and they wanted to defend the goal that required Ben to look into the sun for the first quarter and they got all three. The great ones obsess over small details, do you think Tomlin does? When's the last time you came away from a Steeler game saying holy cow what a great game plan?

Tomlin is a classic example of a coach that has a winning record during the regular season and is an abject failure in the postseason. His winning record is Ben Roethlisberger. Tomlin is a classic example of a guy who makes an effort as opposed to a guy who achieves results. If Hayden had not dropped into our laps tomlin's defensive backfield which is supposed to be his specialty would have been as bad as any in the league.

Somewhere in The Matrix in a parallel universe the Rooneys make an intelligent move, hire Russ Grimm and Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Mike Adams, Josh Dobbs, Archer, Golson never get a look because of their obvious flaws and neither do draftees that don't fit the classic mold of their position because coach Grimm isn't interested in showing the world what a superior intellect he has because his only interest is drafting football players and placing them under the tutelage of intelligent cutting edge coaches therefore none of the coordinators or assistant coaches currently under contract are in our consciousness.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Tomlin is incompetent in several of the components required to excel at his job. Not going to explain the part of the brain chemistry, the areas where he is lacking, the areas where he is strong. The Jaguars exposed our defense and coaching staff. Their brilliant and well thought out opening drive exposed Dupree as a failure, the inside linebackers as useless and our DBs slow on support. Worse, they outsmarted our coaching staff over and over again all game. The game plan worked to a charm even understanding how to handle the coin toss and which goal to defend. Think about it, they wanted the ball, they wanted to expose our defense and they wanted to defend the goal that required Ben to look into the sun for the first quarter and they got all three. The great ones obsess over small details, do you think Tomlin does? When's the last time you came away from a Steeler game saying holy cow what a great game plan?

Tomlin is a classic example of a coach that has a winning record during the regular season and is an abject failure in the postseason. His winning record is Ben Roethlisberger. Tomlin is a classic example of a guy who makes an effort as opposed to a guy who achieves results. If Hayden had not dropped into our laps tomlin's defensive backfield which is supposed to be his specialty would have been as bad as any in the league.

Somewhere in The Matrix in a parallel universe the Rooneys make an intelligent move, hire Russ Grimm and Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Mike Adams, Josh Dobbs, Archer, Golson never get a look because of their obvious flaws and neither do draftees that don't fit the classic mold of their position because coach Grimm isn't interested in showing the world what a superior intellect he has because his only interest is drafting football players and placing them under the tutelage of intelligent cutting edge coaches therefore none of the coordinators or assistant coaches currently under contract are in our consciousness.


Lost all credibility with these 3 words.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:49 pm 
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Bravo Jeems

He did win too early (with most of BC's team).

He is utterly incapable of change, or learning. His attitude is all over this team with the cancer it exudes.

Maybe some of the Steeler ownership group trustees, get AR2 to wake the fuck up and realize the failure of Mike T.

A monumental zero when it comes down to measuring his worth to his team.

He gets them to fight but that only works 20% of the time. Chuck Noll would fucking yawn and :roll:

Fire ASSLIN

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:21 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Tomlin is incompetent in several of the components required to excel at his job. Not going to explain the part of the brain chemistry, the areas where he is lacking, the areas where he is strong. The Jaguars exposed our defense and coaching staff. Their brilliant and well thought out opening drive exposed Dupree as a failure, the inside linebackers as useless and our DBs slow on support. Worse, they outsmarted our coaching staff over and over again all game. The game plan worked to a charm even understanding how to handle the coin toss and which goal to defend. Think about it, they wanted the ball, they wanted to expose our defense and they wanted to defend the goal that required Ben to look into the sun for the first quarter and they got all three. The great ones obsess over small details, do you think Tomlin does? When's the last time you came away from a Steeler game saying holy cow what a great game plan?

Tomlin is a classic example of a coach that has a winning record during the regular season and is an abject failure in the postseason. His winning record is Ben Roethlisberger. Tomlin is a classic example of a guy who makes an effort as opposed to a guy who achieves results. If Hayden had not dropped into our laps tomlin's defensive backfield which is supposed to be his specialty would have been as bad as any in the league.

Somewhere in The Matrix in a parallel universe the Rooneys make an intelligent move, hire Russ Grimm and Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Mike Adams, Josh Dobbs, Archer, Golson never get a look because of their obvious flaws and neither do draftees that don't fit the classic mold of their position because coach Grimm isn't interested in showing the world what a superior intellect he has because his only interest is drafting football players and placing them under the tutelage of intelligent cutting edge coaches therefore none of the coordinators or assistant coaches currently under contract are in our consciousness.

Wait your answer to all this is that the Steelers should have hired Russ Grimm? I was in favor of Whiz myself. If Grimm could be a head coach, why hasn't he ever? Nah. He wasn't the choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:16 am 
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Ben/AB/JuJu/McDonald

I don't trust Mike Tomlin with this.

Add in Bell and I trust Tomlin even less.

Tomlin got a ring with a "style points don't matter mantra".

Style points matter with great offense and especially when the offense is better than the defense and has to lead the way.

Let's be honest, we pulled many RS games out of our collective asses this year. Don't count on that happening next year.

Man, I would love to have an offensive minded HC right now. An offensive genius/difference maker.

Most likely we will fiddle fuck our way thru the first half of next season trying to eak out 1 point wins under Tomin's watch. I have zero reason to believe otherwise.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:44 am 
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Havoc wrote:
Ben/AB/JuJu/McDonald

I don't trust Mike Tomlin with this.

Add in Bell and I trust Tomlin even less.

Tomlin got a ring with a "style points don't matter mantra".

Style points matter with great offense and especially when the offense is better than the defense and has to lead the way.

Let's be honest, we pulled many RS games out of our collective asses this year. Don't count on that happening next year.

Man, I would love to have an offensive minded HC right now. An offensive genius/difference maker.

Most likely we will fiddle fuck our way thru the first half of next season trying to eak out 1 point wins under Tomin's watch. I have zero reason to believe otherwise.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.


In 2007, his rookie season, the Steelers were beating San Francisco 14-6 at the half.

Mike Tomlin reportedly told his team “Let’s take them into deep water and drown them”.

Steelers outscored them 23-10 in the second half.

Where’d that Mike Tomlin go? He doesn’t have a legendary defense that allows him to play a “style points don’t matter” game anymore, so we need that Mike Tomlin back. Besides, in today’s NFL, no lead is safe.

This season turned on Mike Tomlin wanting to play a style points don’t matter game. Well- that, and his lack of planning ahead.

He tried to sit on a 24-16 lead against New England for an entire half.

Then when that didn’t work and we STILL had a chance to win, he couldn’t even get his team to call two plays during a LOOONG timeout, and allowed Todd Haley to send out a suboptimal personnel package that left his 6’4” WR who’d already caught a TD with a defender draped all over him on the bench.

Tomlin doesn’t do these things, and we have homefield, and we play Tennessee rather than Jacksonville.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Havoc wrote:
Ben/AB/JuJu/McDonald

I don't trust Mike Tomlin with this.

Add in Bell and I trust Tomlin even less.

Tomlin got a ring with a "style points don't matter mantra".

Style points matter with great offense and especially when the offense is better than the defense and has to lead the way.

Let's be honest, we pulled many RS games out of our collective asses this year. Don't count on that happening next year.

Man, I would love to have an offensive minded HC right now. An offensive genius/difference maker.

Most likely we will fiddle fuck our way thru the first half of next season trying to eak out 1 point wins under Tomin's watch. I have zero reason to believe otherwise.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.

Belichick tries to bury his opponent.


In 2007, his rookie season, the Steelers were beating San Francisco 14-6 at the half.

Mike Tomlin reportedly told his team “Let’s take them into deep water and drown them”.

Steelers outscored them 23-10 in the second half.

Where’d that Mike Tomlin go? He doesn’t have a legendary defense that allows him to play a “style points don’t matter” game anymore, so we need that Mike Tomlin back. Besides, in today’s NFL, no lead is safe.

This season turned on Mike Tomlin wanting to play a style points don’t matter game. Well- that, and his lack of planning ahead.

He tried to sit on a 24-16 lead against New England for an entire half.

Then when that didn’t work and we STILL had a chance to win, he couldn’t even get his team to call two plays during a LOOONG timeout, and allowed Todd Haley to send out a suboptimal personnel package that left his 6’4” WR who’d already caught a TD with a defender draped all over him on the bench.

Tomlin doesn’t do these things, and we have homefield, and we play Tennessee rather than Jacksonville.


Good points and worthy of a bump


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Yesterday was the final straw for me.

Mike Tomlin has worn out his welcome...he's fooled me for the last time.

His decision-making yesterday...the sub-optimization on 4th and shorts, his foolish going for the onside kick out of fear of his defense, his failure to even try and give his team one more chance by quickly kicking the FG when the team was at the 5 with 57 seconds left and the clock stopped, and to top it all off, his failure once again to rein in the "entitlement" attitude of several of his players...is to me the equivalent of Bill Cowher electing to send out the FG unit on 4th and goal from the 2 in the AFCCG.

The last point for me makes it worse because I don't see Tomlin being able to summon up the mental fortitude Bill Cowher did to both change his mindset and also challenge his team to be greater than the sum of their parts, so I don't think a "warning shot" from Art II (which I don't think is coming anyway) would be enough to shake him up. And without some change in personnel, I don't see this mental fortitude in many of the players either.

I think also what makes it worse is I don't see any "Steeler glacial pace of change". I see a stubborn refusal to learn anything. I see elements where Mike Tomlin could improve that are wholly within his control that he steadfastly refuses to do...and has refused to do for his ENTIRE career. I know press conferences are for coaches to spout bullshit, especially after losses...but I truly think Mike Tomlin believes his bullshit.

Ultimately Bill Cowher changed his ways in 2005 because he hadn't won the prize yet.

It may be that Mike Tomlin won too early in his career, and so therefore doesn't possess the same drive to keep achieving.

Maybe not...but I don't want to waste the remaining years of Ben's waning career to find out.

I'm not going to say I'll quit watching...I've been a fan since the 70s and I can't just walk away.

But I don't care if the Steelers go 16-0 next season...I'm not believing a word Mike Tomlin says anymore, and I'm not trusting a team under his command is going to win anything...until he proves it.


1000% correct -- great post


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