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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:07 pm 
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The 2002 Super Bowl winning Tampa Bay Buccaneers led by first year coach Jon Gruden
Quote:
In January 2002, after losing in the wild card round to the Eagles for the second consecutive year, the Buccaneers fired head coach Tony Dungy.[1][2] After a recruiting effort aimed at former Jets coach Bill Parcells, Tampa Bay settled on Raiders coach Jon Gruden in exchange for two first round draft picks (2002, 2003), two second round picks (2002, 2004) and US$8 million in cash payments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season

The 2015 Super Bowl winning Denver Broncos led by first year head coach Gary Kubiak
Quote:
On January 12, 2015, one day after the Broncos' 24–13 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in the Divisional round of the 2014 playoffs, the Broncos and head coach John Fox decided to mutually part ways. Fox compiled a 49–22 record in four seasons (including the playoffs), led the Broncos to four consecutive AFC West division titles, a first-round bye in three consecutive seasons as well as a berth in Super Bowl XLVIII, but lost in the Divisional round of the playoffs in three of his four seasons as head coach.[4] Fox departed with a .719 winning percentage in his four seasons as head coach — the highest in franchise history.[5] Four days later (January 16), Fox was hired as the new head coach of the Chicago Bears.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Denver_Broncos_season



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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Stillcajun wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Yesterday was the final straw for me.

Mike Tomlin has worn out his welcome...he's fooled me for the last time.

His decision-making yesterday...the sub-optimization on 4th and shorts, his foolish going for the onside kick out of fear of his defense, his failure to even try and give his team one more chance by quickly kicking the FG when the team was at the 5 with 57 seconds left and the clock stopped, and to top it all off, his failure once again to rein in the "entitlement" attitude of several of his players...is to me the equivalent of Bill Cowher electing to send out the FG unit on 4th and goal from the 2 in the AFCCG.

The last point for me makes it worse because I don't see Tomlin being able to summon up the mental fortitude Bill Cowher did to both change his mindset and also challenge his team to be greater than the sum of their parts, so I don't think a "warning shot" from Art II (which I don't think is coming anyway) would be enough to shake him up. And without some change in personnel, I don't see this mental fortitude in many of the players either.

I think also what makes it worse is I don't see any "Steeler glacial pace of change". I see a stubborn refusal to learn anything. I see elements where Mike Tomlin could improve that are wholly within his control that he steadfastly refuses to do...and has refused to do for his ENTIRE career. I know press conferences are for coaches to spout bullshit, especially after losses...but I truly think Mike Tomlin believes his bullshit.

Ultimately Bill Cowher changed his ways in 2005 because he hadn't won the prize yet.

It may be that Mike Tomlin won too early in his career, and so therefore doesn't possess the same drive to keep achieving.

Maybe not...but I don't want to waste the remaining years of Ben's waning career to find out.

I'm not going to say I'll quit watching...I've been a fan since the 70s and I can't just walk away.

But I don't care if the Steelers go 16-0 next season...I'm not believing a word Mike Tomlin says anymore, and I'm not trusting a team under his command is going to win anything...until he proves it.


Tomlin's mantra -"We don't live in our fears"

This is contradicted on an almost weekly basis and was on full display yesterday afternoon.

HC/OC/QB - Doesn't call QB sneaks on 4th >1 twice because they're scared about possible QB injury.

DC - Doesn't attack but runs a more read & react type of D because they were concerned about the Jags running game, played Lebeau zone, large cushions & tackle the catch to keep things in front of them on 3rd down because they were scared of the deep pass but were playing a dink and dunk QB who last week couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

Coaching - Was willing to sit and release a guy in Harrison instead of giving him some playing time because they didn't want to scared to admit that Dupree is a soft pussy.
Coaching/Personnel - Too scared to find a more quality ILB in FA and brought back a guy in Spence because "he knew the system".
Coaching - Calling for a onside kick w/ 2 TO and a 2 min instead of @ least trying to line up and stop them to make them punt because you feared the D couldn't stop Jax.

He and his regime is the epitome of contradiction.


Great posts boys.

This is the biggest Steelers Post Season blunder ...........due to coaching incompetance, arrogance, stubborness and failure to adjust.

From game planning the opening two drives. Tomlin / Haley.
To not adjusting on defense to stop the run. Tomlin / Butler.

To looking ahead, weeks ago, to a NE rematch. Tomlin.
That's both disrespecting the next opponent and gearing them up. Giving them an extra edge of motivation and hate.
To giving a false sens of bravado to your players, who were also looking past the Jags.

To not getting Harrison and Bryant involved in the game plan early in the season.
Yes Bryant needed to regain his confidence, teammate trust and shake off the rust..........but right up until yesterdays game, I would not be surprised if Bryant was only 4th on number of snaps by PS WR's yesterday. Yes, Rogers had a big day, but he was working with-in 5-10 yards of scrimmage, never really running back the safeties for JuJu and the TE's underneath in the middle of the field or for that matter the running game. Any deep slant to MB could go to the house.

The Harrison situation was all ego for Tomlin.
No reason he could not have been getting 15-18-20 snaps a game in a rotation with Watt and Dupree. Did those guys really need to play 95-98-100% of defensive snaps.
Did Duprees play warrant keeping James off the field. Would Watt have learned a little more seeing James step in a play here and there each game.
Did Moats and Chickillo warrant defensive snaps over Harrision? Holly Crap thats a personnel vendetta / stubborn issue over whats best for the team.

The culmination between these two came when James ended the KC game with a sack. And as the final whistle blew, JH and Tomlin were standing side by side on the sideline with Harrison giving Tomlin an earful. Most likely about playing time and how he just ended the game. Tomlin tried to laugh it off, put his arm around James. James was not having any of the bull shit. It become personnel for Tomlin after that. Dumb.
Pride over team. Yes, posters will point to one play that James did not set the edge against the Ravens. He had 40 snaps on the season? How many plays did Dupree not set the edge? Failure to put the best team on the field was trumped by arrogance and ego.

Heard all week how the PS would need to be more balanced, run the ball better, feed Bell. Not have to rely on Ben throwing 50+ passes. The 5 picks, the Jags corners. The chatty back and forth banter between those guys and Mitchell / Bell.
So once again, a week to game plan and we chose arrogance and stubborness to show the world, show the Jags, we are gonna go right to your strengths to beat you. Go right at your secondary, that the last time we faced you was just execution problems.
The offensive game plan to come out 5 wide, empty set was just pure ASS. Arrogant, Stubborn and Stupit. ( Stupit with a T cause it even looks stupit )

This offense has so many weapons, we almost never have to go empty backfield. Almost never should have to tell and help the defense by eliminating run or pass.
And going back to the short stuff, WR screens.......was just setting this offense back to the early season woes and struggles. Not to mention testing the edges/ CB's of a team with the best CB duo in football.
A balanced formation with a nice mix of runs and passes, was what put this offense into gear in the second half of the season.

Of course since that failed. Run, Run pass would certainly be the cure-all.
This staff is less smarter than most give credit for.
The only reason we scored 42, was due to sandlot football, let it all hang out, throw deep on 4th and long.............and of course exception players making exception plays....Ben, AB, Bryant, Bell.

But when it comes down to basic situational game planning and play calling. This team is pure dumb.
When it comes down to basic situational football and play calling..........and the clock is ticking and the pressure is mounting and the down and distance is critical. The dumb meter is red lining.

The kick-off vs. on side kick was debated. The football world is killing Tomlins decision. Ok, he did it.
But his ineptitude towards game and clock management just does not end, as it did not end with the onside kick that they did not practice or prepare for............it was after the last Jag FG that his skills still shined brightly. At what point on the clock does he say, OK, lets kick the FG and make sure we still have time for another onside kick attempt, a recovery and a play or two, or three.
None of that entered his mind.
Not at :47 second after Bryant play down to the 5.
Not at :32 seconds from the 15 after the INT grounding. ( thats when you absolutely need to kick the FG. )

:32 second and maybe you have a chance to recover a kick and have :22 seconds or so for two plays and a chuck in the endzone.

Every single shot needed to be in the endzone, with no time outs left.

Yet we see a pass in the field of play with AB getting tackled ( 1. all plays need to be in the endzone, 2. If not, get out of bounds ) . Hmmm......I can't recall the last time we were in this spot and we had a pass play in the field of play and we lost 15-20 of clock. ) oh New England. We do not learn form the failures of our past.
Dumb compounded by dumb.

Spike, Kick FG. Nope.

Another pass with :10 second to Grimble.

Kick FG?
Nope.

We then see yet one more pass with :4 on the clock.
Did he really even think that in 4 second, we could get a TD, recover kick and have one hail mary?

two 4th and inches.
Was screaming for a QB sneak. We all were. The Jags defense was not ready for the first one. Quick snap.
I commented in the game thread when we came to the second 4th and inches.
Said it was time to right the earlier stupidity by going QB sneak.

I don't care who is calling that play.
If I am head coach, I yell into the head set.
Ben get up and keep it.
Go!

Mike Tomlin was comfortable in his calls yesterday. :shock:
I don't think you fix this with a change of OC.


Preach mon frere!


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Tomlin will need to repeat this blunder a few more times before Rooney will consider a change.

The back side of both Tomlin and Ben’s careers will be defined by multiple missed opportunities.

While getting past NE was a tall order, we have the offensive talent to win a shootout. And if somehow that was pulled off the NFC team will be one of the most beatable in recent memory.

Especially in terms of the QBs. No Rodgers in his prime lurcking etc.

But then, we’ve shown the caliber of QB matters not when our players must not only beat their opponent but also overcome their own coaches deficient thinking. Not to mention their own primadonna attitudes that if we are being honest is a big part of why this team is a postseason pretender.

I called out each of his foolish decisions right before he proved me right to my own dismay.

Before first 4th and 1 I said to wife and son watch them pitch it into the back field here.

Before second one I said watch them throw it downfield here.

Right after they scored TD to go down 7 I said watch Tomlin onside here.

I’m sure many of you did I thought the same. And each time I said it the family gave me he same response which was why? Why would they as you predict?

Because we’ve seen this movie too many damn times. If I can sit there in my PJs as a fan and think of one of the stupidest plays they can call and they do then that tells me everything I have come to think and believe about these coaches has been true.

I’ve hit Tomlin on his “thought process” many times in the past. Cooled down during the season because we were winning and I decided to give him the benefit of doubt.

Well, his deficiencies were in full display once again.

The second 4th and less than a yard?? Maintain possession is THE NUMBER ONE GOAL FOR THAT PLAY!!! Getting a chuck of yards isn’t what you need there. You need to make sure you maintain possession. Failing to do so most likely means you will lose. A score on that drive must happen. So you run the HIGHEST PERCENTAGE play. The three stooges of Tomlin, Haley, and Ben had the benefit of a stopped clock to discuss it and this is what they do.

Then the onside. Oh boy was that dumb. At that point in the game here is one thing that was pretty much unavoidable. And that being that your defense was going to have to stop a FG drive. The only question was whether you wanted to give them a long field to defend or a short one.

Dumbo chose the short field.

Assume you succeeded in recovering and assume you turn that into a game tieing TD. Given the fact he Jags has all three TOs plus the 2 minute warning it’s not likely that you would be able to bleed too much of the 2:18 that was left after we scored to bring it within 7. So you still would have to kick off and your D still needs to stop them from scoring a FG to win.

And yes I admit they would have limited time to do this.

However, by trying the onside and failing. You almost guaranteed they will be able to get the FG they would need to seal the victory. The risk reward was not there.

Succeed and you still need to kick off to them. Fail and you now must defend a short field. Failure to do so means you lose.

He gambled the entire game on recovering an onside?

But running a QB sneak needing a quarter of a yard is too risky?

Ben is still capable of winning a SB. However, Ben isn’t good enough anymore to overcome an inept staff.

Especially when after 14 seasons he still doesn’t know when time really is up and it’s best to just throw it away.

Those plays don’t happen to Brady because he will get rid of the ball. And will do so with confidence that he can pick up the 3rd & 10 he left himself with.

Ya Ben, that backside pressure was never going to get there.

And that is t even bringing up how freaking hesitant the guy looked when he had open field to run.

Do some sprints or something in the offseason. You aren’t that freaking old. Guy looked like Jared Lorenzen out there trying to run the ball.

It’s a shame. I thought Ben was going to get another SB before he was done. Still might but a lot less likely after missing yet another opportunity.


Last edited by 955876 on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:20 pm 
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http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... 1801140220


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:

Yesterday, just about every one of Mike Tomlin’s faults was on display for all to see.

Yeah our defense oughtn’t to have gotten pushed around like that. Not by Blake Bortles...who I know will struggle to do anything next week.

Despite that though...this game was still ours to take...but in critical spots, we got sub-optimal coaching decisions that killed us. And two really bad plays by our HoF QB.


What's most disheartening are is post-game comments. I haven't watched the presser, but from various quotes and blurbs, Tomlin's hanging his hat on poor execution. WTF?!? Is he really hanging his players out to dry like that?

Why is it that every week this season players were answering questions about getting gashed for big runs and big plays. Every week I read or heard the same thing. It's our execution. It's poor communication. It's trusting ourselves. So, we either have mentally challenged players that aren't competent enough to follow the game plan and execute. Or we have incompetent coaches that have been unable to correct anything over an entire season.

At some point it isn't the Joe's anymore and it becomes obvious it's the X's and O's.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
The 2002 Super Bowl winning Tampa Bay Buccaneers led by first year coach Jon Gruden
Quote:
In January 2002, after losing in the wild card round to the Eagles for the second consecutive year, the Buccaneers fired head coach Tony Dungy.[1][2] After a recruiting effort aimed at former Jets coach Bill Parcells, Tampa Bay settled on Raiders coach Jon Gruden in exchange for two first round draft picks (2002, 2003), two second round picks (2002, 2004) and US$8 million in cash payments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season

The 2015 Super Bowl winning Denver Broncos led by first year head coach Gary Kubiak
Quote:
On January 12, 2015, one day after the Broncos' 24–13 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in the Divisional round of the 2014 playoffs, the Broncos and head coach John Fox decided to mutually part ways. Fox compiled a 49–22 record in four seasons (including the playoffs), led the Broncos to four consecutive AFC West division titles, a first-round bye in three consecutive seasons as well as a berth in Super Bowl XLVIII, but lost in the Divisional round of the playoffs in three of his four seasons as head coach.[4] Fox departed with a .719 winning percentage in his four seasons as head coach — the highest in franchise history.[5] Four days later (January 16), Fox was hired as the new head coach of the Chicago Bears.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Denver_Broncos_season



You forgot Siefert. And Don McCafferty.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:44 pm 
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1. Disagree re kicking the ball at the five. If you recover it likely would take forty seconds to actually get back to the five. The key was that passes needed to go into the EZ. Should’ve been quick fades to Bryant.

2. Disagreed (not with OP) that we played zone tackle the catch. Early on we played man and were beat by Bortles rushing. Then we started with Zone. Key was to continue man but Cam needed to hold the point.

3. Don’t disagree that Tomlin sucks and lives in his fears. It’s who he is. When the hips are down he always wants to avoid mistakes over taking risks. This was summed up by the series after the blocked punt and the d vision to go with Rogers over Bryant.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Tomlin is incompetent in several of the components required to excel at his job. Not going to explain the part of the brain chemistry, the areas where he is lacking, the areas where he is strong. The Jaguars exposed our defense and coaching staff. Their brilliant and well thought out opening drive exposed Dupree as a failure, the inside linebackers as useless and our DBs slow on support. Worse, they outsmarted our coaching staff over and over again all game. The game plan worked to a charm even understanding how to handle the coin toss and which goal to defend. Think about it, they wanted the ball, they wanted to expose our defense and they wanted to defend the goal that required Ben to look into the sun for the first quarter and they got all three. The great ones obsess over small details, do you think Tomlin does? When's the last time you came away from a Steeler game saying holy cow what a great game plan?

Tomlin is a classic example of a coach that has a winning record during the regular season and is an abject failure in the postseason. His winning record is Ben Roethlisberger. Tomlin is a classic example of a guy who makes an effort as opposed to a guy who achieves results. If Hayden had not dropped into our laps tomlin's defensive backfield which is supposed to be his specialty would have been as bad as any in the league.

Somewhere in The Matrix in a parallel universe the Rooneys make an intelligent move, hire Russ Grimm and Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Mike Adams, Josh Dobbs, Archer, Golson never get a look because of their obvious flaws and neither do draftees that don't fit the classic mold of their position because coach Grimm isn't interested in showing the world what a superior intellect he has because his only interest is drafting football players and placing them under the tutelage of intelligent cutting edge coaches therefore none of the coordinators or assistant coaches currently under contract are in our consciousness.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
Tomlin is incompetent in several of the components required to excel at his job. Not going to explain the part of the brain chemistry, the areas where he is lacking, the areas where he is strong. The Jaguars exposed our defense and coaching staff. Their brilliant and well thought out opening drive exposed Dupree as a failure, the inside linebackers as useless and our DBs slow on support. Worse, they outsmarted our coaching staff over and over again all game. The game plan worked to a charm even understanding how to handle the coin toss and which goal to defend. Think about it, they wanted the ball, they wanted to expose our defense and they wanted to defend the goal that required Ben to look into the sun for the first quarter and they got all three. The great ones obsess over small details, do you think Tomlin does? When's the last time you came away from a Steeler game saying holy cow what a great game plan?

Tomlin is a classic example of a coach that has a winning record during the regular season and is an abject failure in the postseason. His winning record is Ben Roethlisberger. Tomlin is a classic example of a guy who makes an effort as opposed to a guy who achieves results. If Hayden had not dropped into our laps tomlin's defensive backfield which is supposed to be his specialty would have been as bad as any in the league.

Somewhere in The Matrix in a parallel universe the Rooneys make an intelligent move, hire Russ Grimm and Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree, Mike Adams, Josh Dobbs, Archer, Golson never get a look because of their obvious flaws and neither do draftees that don't fit the classic mold of their position because coach Grimm isn't interested in showing the world what a superior intellect he has because his only interest is drafting football players and placing them under the tutelage of intelligent cutting edge coaches therefore none of the coordinators or assistant coaches currently under contract are in our consciousness.


Lost all credibility with these 3 words.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Tomlin to go, or for me, why Jax 2017 = NE 2004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:49 pm 
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Bravo Jeems

He did win too early (with most of BC's team).

He is utterly incapable of change, or learning. His attitude is all over this team with the cancer it exudes.

Maybe some of the Steeler ownership group trustees, get AR2 to wake the fuck up and realize the failure of Mike T.

A monumental zero when it comes down to measuring his worth to his team.

He gets them to fight but that only works 20% of the time. Chuck Noll would fucking yawn and :roll:

Fire ASSLIN

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