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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:28 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Quote:
Patience isn’t necessarily what I like about them. I think more often than not it’s better than knee jerk change. For every, Fox to Kubiak, there’s a Schottenheimer to Turner.

But, for almost 50 yrs, the Steelers method has been the standard. And I don’t think Robert Kraft has done anything special. He happened to hire a great coach who got lucky and drafted possibly the greatest QB in NFL history. What else has he done?


50 years? You sound like a Rooney. This is the kind of thinking I can't stand. We have our greatest QB on the roster - do everything you can to win now because we are going to have to suffer through a transition when he is gone and I would welcome the suffering if the guy would get aggressive for once in his life and try to win now, damn the future.

I hate the Patriots more than any other team in history, but Robert Kraft hasn't done anything special? WTF are you talking about? Are you serious? Since he bought that team in 1994? he has had that team in 13 AFC Championships. That's 13 out of 24 years in the AFCCG and in the playoffs 19 times and in the Super Bowl 8 times! We all know the head to head atrocities.

What I particularly like is their aggressiveness to acquire players. In the midst of this winning, they have consistently gone out and tried to improve the team through trades to acquire players.

Brandin Cooks, Randy Moss, Wes Walker, Ted Walker, Corey Dillon - all big trades they have made.

How about developing young QB's and trading them for picks. And all of the countless draft day trades they have made to stock pile picks.

They have also been aggressive in Free Agency....Stephon Gilmore, Rodney Harrison, Darrelle Revis to name a few.

Nothing special.


You don't need to trade for Randy Moss when you draft AB and Bell.

The team had the talent this year.


Steelers had an embarrassment of riches on the offensive side of the ball...didn't stop that offensive juggernaut from giving away 14 points on Sunday while they were scoring 42. I'm going to go with my position of believing Tomlin, et al, that James Harrison had nothing left. He's done nothing special yet, but he's playing a shitload more with the Patriots than he did with the Steelers. It's going to be goddamn hard to see that guy being fitted for another Super Bowl ring....one that's not ours.

And the comp, IMO, and it's been stated previously, isn't with The Pompous Fuck Robert Kraft...but rather right there on Fifth Avenue in Pittsburgh with Mario Lemieux/Ron Berkle. Those guys, recognizing the clock was ticking on their generational talent(s), pulled the trigger, fired a Stanely Cup winning coach, who simply wasn't getting it done any more. Those fuckin' guys want to win, whereas The Douchebag Art II would like to win, provided not too many waves are incurred along the way.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:42 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Quote:
Patience isn’t necessarily what I like about them. I think more often than not it’s better than knee jerk change. For every, Fox to Kubiak, there’s a Schottenheimer to Turner.

But, for almost 50 yrs, the Steelers method has been the standard. And I don’t think Robert Kraft has done anything special. He happened to hire a great coach who got lucky and drafted possibly the greatest QB in NFL history. What else has he done?


50 years? You sound like a Rooney. This is the kind of thinking I can't stand. We have our greatest QB on the roster - do everything you can to win now because we are going to have to suffer through a transition when he is gone and I would welcome the suffering if the guy would get aggressive for once in his life and try to win now, damn the future.

I hate the Patriots more than any other team in history, but Robert Kraft hasn't done anything special? WTF are you talking about? Are you serious? Since he bought that team in 1994? he has had that team in 13 AFC Championships. That's 13 out of 24 years in the AFCCG and in the playoffs 19 times and in the Super Bowl 8 times! We all know the head to head atrocities.

What I particularly like is their aggressiveness to acquire players. In the midst of this winning, they have consistently gone out and tried to improve the team through trades to acquire players.

Brandin Cooks, Randy Moss, Wes Walker, Ted Walker, Corey Dillon - all big trades they have made.

How about developing young QB's and trading them for picks. And all of the countless draft day trades they have made to stock pile picks.

They have also been aggressive in Free Agency....Stephon Gilmore, Rodney Harrison, Darrelle Revis to name a few.

Nothing special.


You don't need to trade for Randy Moss when you draft AB and Bell.

The team had the talent this year.

Offensively maybe - no where near the talent defensively.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:50 am 
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Swiss -

Agree with you about Harrison.

Regarding the Penguins - agree about the urgency to win - no question Swiss - Art2 has a bigger urgency to move his bowels in the morning than to do anything it takes to win another SB ring or beat the Patriots.

But it's hard for me to compare hockey to the NFL. That is why I must compare the Steelers to their big brothers, the Patriots. No comparison when it comes to an effort to re-stock and improve the roster.

Go Jags.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:14 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Swiss -

Agree with you about Harrison.

Regarding the Penguins - agree about the urgency to win - no question Swiss - Art2 has a bigger urgency to move his bowels in the morning than to do anything it takes to win another SB ring or beat the Patriots.

But it's hard for me to compare hockey to the NFL. That is why I must compare the Steelers to their big brothers, the Patriots. No comparison when it comes to an effort to re-stock and improve the roster.

Go Jags.


Not in terms of talent acquisition, Suwanee....but in management's approach to wanting to win. Dan Bylsma's career paralleled Tomlin's to a great extent. They won championships the same year. Next year, Bylsma's Penguins lost in 7 in the 2nd round of playoffs, okay. Following year, absent both Sid & Malkin, they lost first round to Tampa Bay. Then came two years where they were the Cup favorites entering the playoffs....lost to Philly first round in 2012, swept by Bruins in semis the following year. Then came the year, where they're up 3-1 against Rangers, lose the Series. Mario/Burkle said enough's enough, seeya Disco Dan.

Losing to Jax, at home, Divisional Round, is the equivalent to losing the Rangers series. Except Art II isn't going to pull the trigger on Tomlin. Therein lies the difference.

Other thing....to all the Tomlin apologists, analysts, who cite his won-lost record, no losing seasons, blah, blah, blah, and predict he'd be snapped up within minutes, maybe so. I would be though, that similar to Disco Dan, absent his superstars to save his ass, he would be exposed, and back out the door...again....within three years or so...


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:14 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Tomlin ain't going anywhere. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing him move on. That said, this is my list of candidates after blowing up the staff...,
Randy Fichtner replaces re:Todd as Offensive Coordinator
Frank Cignetti Jr. replaces Fichtner as QB coach
Greg Schiano replaces Butler as Defensive Coordinator
Derek Mason or Nick Rapone replaces Lake as DB coach
Hardy Nickerson or Kevin Greene replaces peezy as OLB coach
Dave Toub or Ron Zook replaces smith as Special Teams Coordinator
Retain all other assistant/position coaches


Agree with Fitchner
Rather have Batch as QB coach since he knows Ben well
I know Schiano and he has no plans to go back to the NFL No Idea who to replace Butler with
Don't know about DB coach
Would love Greene but isn't he coaching at the Jets
After that onsides kick I'd replace Smith with a traffic cone.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:04 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Anyway, I'm sure that come the first Sunday after Labor Day this year, I'll be firing up my NFL Sunday Ticket, for which I'll shell out about three bills again. I'll be saying once again that Mike Tomlin will NEVER beat Bill Belichick in a game of any consequence, qualifying that remark by saying that if they do battle in January, I'll be believing once again. And, as I've oft-said, like Charlie Brown with that little bitch Lucy, I was believing all the way until mere seconds remained yesterday, convinced that our Steelers were going to get another shot at the Belichickians in that hellhole on Route 1 next Sunday, convincing myself that it would be a different outcome this time.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:52 pm
Posts: 7291
Still Lit wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Anyway, I'm sure that come the first Sunday after Labor Day this year, I'll be firing up my NFL Sunday Ticket, for which I'll shell out about three bills again. I'll be saying once again that Mike Tomlin will NEVER beat Bill Belichick in a game of any consequence, qualifying that remark by saying that if they do battle in January, I'll be believing once again. And, as I've oft-said, like Charlie Brown with that little bitch Lucy, I was believing all the way until mere seconds remained yesterday, convinced that our Steelers were going to get another shot at the Belichickians in that hellhole on Route 1 next Sunday, convincing myself that it would be a different outcome this time.


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Good pic, Lit!! And no mumbo-jumbo!!


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1040
Suwanee88 wrote:
Quote:
Patience isn’t necessarily what I like about them. I think more often than not it’s better than knee jerk change. For every, Fox to Kubiak, there’s a Schottenheimer to Turner.

But, for almost 50 yrs, the Steelers method has been the standard. And I don’t think Robert Kraft has done anything special. He happened to hire a great coach who got lucky and drafted possibly the greatest QB in NFL history. What else has he done?


50 years? You sound like a Rooney. This is the kind of thinking I can't stand. We have our greatest QB on the roster - do everything you can to win now because we are going to have to suffer through a transition when he is gone and I would welcome the suffering if the guy would get aggressive for once in his life and try to win now, damn the future.

I hate the Patriots more than any other team in history, but Robert Kraft hasn't done anything special? WTF are you talking about? Are you serious? Since he bought that team in 1994? he has had that team in 13 AFC Championships. That's 13 out of 24 years in the AFCCG and in the playoffs 19 times and in the Super Bowl 8 times! We all know the head to head atrocities.

What I particularly like is their aggressiveness to acquire players. In the midst of this winning, they have consistently gone out and tried to improve the team through trades to acquire players.

Brandin Cooks, Randy Moss, Wes Walker, Ted Walker, Corey Dillon - all big trades they have made.

How about developing young QB's and trading them for picks. And all of the countless draft day trades they have made to stock pile picks.

They have also been aggressive in Free Agency....Stephon Gilmore, Rodney Harrison, Darrelle Revis to name a few.

Nothing special.


Man, you’re giving wayyy too much credit to Kraft and ownership. I don’t disagree with your points. But, good ownership is hiring people you believe in and getting out of the way. That’s all Kraft has done and same for the Rooney’s. Just so happens Kraft got lucky w/Belichick.

Paul Allen, that dunce in Indy, Kraft. Any turd owner can catch lightning in a bottle with a coach/player. Last time I looked it’s only been the Rooney’s that have had 3 coaches since 69 and are relevant every decade since.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:25 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Swiss -

Agree with you about Harrison.

Regarding the Penguins - agree about the urgency to win - no question Swiss - Art2 has a bigger urgency to move his bowels in the morning than to do anything it takes to win another SB ring or beat the Patriots.

But it's hard for me to compare hockey to the NFL. That is why I must compare the Steelers to their big brothers, the Patriots. No comparison when it comes to an effort to re-stock and improve the roster.

Go Jags.


Not in terms of talent acquisition, Suwanee....but in management's approach to wanting to win. Dan Bylsma's career paralleled Tomlin's to a great extent. They won championships the same year. Next year, Bylsma's Penguins lost in 7 in the 2nd round of playoffs, okay. Following year, absent both Sid & Malkin, they lost first round to Tampa Bay. Then came two years where they were the Cup favorites entering the playoffs....lost to Philly first round in 2012, swept by Bruins in semis the following year. Then came the year, where they're up 3-1 against Rangers, lose the Series. Mario/Burkle said enough's enough, seeya Disco Dan.

Losing to Jax, at home, Divisional Round, is the equivalent to losing the Rangers series. Except Art II isn't going to pull the trigger on Tomlin. Therein lies the difference.

Other thing....to all the Tomlin apologists, analysts, who cite his won-lost record, no losing seasons, blah, blah, blah, and predict he'd be snapped up within minutes, maybe so. I would be though, that similar to Disco Dan, absent his superstars to save his ass, he would be exposed, and back out the door...again....within three years or so...


Swiss wins again -- hopefully ownership for Steelers will make the ballsy move and fire this overrated fuck


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:37 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Quote:
Patience isn’t necessarily what I like about them. I think more often than not it’s better than knee jerk change. For every, Fox to Kubiak, there’s a Schottenheimer to Turner.

But, for almost 50 yrs, the Steelers method has been the standard. And I don’t think Robert Kraft has done anything special. He happened to hire a great coach who got lucky and drafted possibly the greatest QB in NFL history. What else has he done?


50 years? You sound like a Rooney. This is the kind of thinking I can't stand. We have our greatest QB on the roster - do everything you can to win now because we are going to have to suffer through a transition when he is gone and I would welcome the suffering if the guy would get aggressive for once in his life and try to win now, damn the future.

I hate the Patriots more than any other team in history, but Robert Kraft hasn't done anything special? WTF are you talking about? Are you serious? Since he bought that team in 1994? he has had that team in 13 AFC Championships. That's 13 out of 24 years in the AFCCG and in the playoffs 19 times and in the Super Bowl 8 times! We all know the head to head atrocities.

What I particularly like is their aggressiveness to acquire players. In the midst of this winning, they have consistently gone out and tried to improve the team through trades to acquire players.

Brandin Cooks, Randy Moss, Wes Walker, Ted Walker, Corey Dillon - all big trades they have made.

How about developing young QB's and trading them for picks. And all of the countless draft day trades they have made to stock pile picks.

They have also been aggressive in Free Agency....Stephon Gilmore, Rodney Harrison, Darrelle Revis to name a few.

Nothing special.


Man, you’re giving wayyy too much credit to Kraft and ownership. I don’t disagree with your points. But, good ownership is hiring people you believe in and getting out of the way. That’s all Kraft has done and same for the Rooney’s. Just so happens Kraft got lucky w/Belichick.

Paul Allen, that dunce in Indy, Kraft. Any turd owner can catch lightning in a bottle with a coach/player. Last time I looked it’s only been the Rooney’s that have had 3 coaches since 69 and are relevant every decade since.


To understand what Kraft has done, you've got to look at the Patriots previous to his ownership. They never had an owner committed to winning a championship. They've had a few flashes prior to Kraft - 70's playoff appearances and 80's Super Bowl team that couldn't "Berry the Bears" but the Pats history 1960-93 was as dismal as fucking Foxboro Stadium which was replaced by Kraft. I can't stand the Pompous Fuck, but no one can deny his commitment to winning which beats EMR and co.

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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:50 am 
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Obviously wrote:
To understand what Kraft has done, you've got to look at the Patriots previous to his ownership. They never had an owner committed to winning a championship. They've had a few flashes prior to Kraft - 70's playoff appearances and 80's Super Bowl team that couldn't "Berry the Bears" but the Pats history 1960-93 was as dismal as fucking Foxboro Stadium which was replaced by Kraft. I can't stand the Pompous Fuck, but no one can deny his commitment to winning which beats EMR and co.


Successful people are rarely successful for a long period of time because of "luck".

Like you said, Kraft has a singular commitment to winning and (at least until this Brady nonsense, maybe) has not let anything distract him from that.

That is a supremely special aspect most people don't have.

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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:03 am 
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Quote:
Man, you’re giving wayyy too much credit to Kraft and ownership. I don’t disagree with your points. But, good ownership is hiring people you believe in and getting out of the way. That’s all Kraft has done and same for the Rooney’s. Just so happens Kraft got lucky w/Belichick.

Paul Allen, that dunce in Indy, Kraft. Any turd owner can catch lightning in a bottle with a coach/player. Last time I looked it’s only been the Rooney’s that have had 3 coaches since 69 and are relevant every decade since.


Wow, incredible quote here-

Ownership in any organization is paramount, especially in a situation like the Steelers have with a few investors and Art2 having the final say. You are minimizing his and Kraft's influence. Even though we don't see it, he is involved with all aspects of this team on some level and he is certainly in the loop on all major decisions as it pertains to his family's business- no question.

Running this business isn't just luck - are you kidding me? And having 3 coaches since 1969 doesn't necessarily mean that is a good thing. I respect that he isn't knee jerk but there is a balance - he is out of balance.

They aren't the Bengals, but Art2 is too patient and predictable, especially when he is competing with a cut throat assassin like Robert Kraft.


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 Post subject: Re: SBI...Fire Mike Tomlin (Steelers Epitaph 2017)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Posts: 1040
Suwanee88 wrote:
Quote:
Man, you’re giving wayyy too much credit to Kraft and ownership. I don’t disagree with your points. But, good ownership is hiring people you believe in and getting out of the way. That’s all Kraft has done and same for the Rooney’s. Just so happens Kraft got lucky w/Belichick.

Paul Allen, that dunce in Indy, Kraft. Any turd owner can catch lightning in a bottle with a coach/player. Last time I looked it’s only been the Rooney’s that have had 3 coaches since 69 and are relevant every decade since.


Wow, incredible quote here-

Ownership in any organization is paramount, especially in a situation like the Steelers have with a few investors and Art2 having the final say. You are minimizing his and Kraft's influence. Even though we don't see it, he is involved with all aspects of this team on some level and he is certainly in the loop on all major decisions as it pertains to his family's business- no question.

Running this business isn't just luck - are you kidding me? And having 3 coaches since 1969 doesn't necessarily mean that is a good thing. I respect that he isn't knee jerk but there is a balance - he is out of balance.

They aren't the Bengals, but Art2 is too patient and predictable, especially when he is competing with a cut throat assassin like Robert Kraft.


Why? Explain why and how Kraft is a cutthroat assasin? What special knowledge do you have of Krafts operations that everybody else doesn’t? How the fuck isn’t it luck? What does Robert Kraft specifically do that can’t be attributed to Belichick decisions?

Fact is, you’re assuming. You have no fucking idea what input or involvement Kraft has in the Patriots operations. Does Belichick strike you as a man that welcomes input from his owner? Fuck no, he doesn’t.

Tomlin should be fired. ARII should do it. But, to claim that Kraft is some football savant heads and shoulders obove ARII is complete and utter bullshit.


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