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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:16 am 
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The only way Tomlin is fired is if he is caught sniffing cocaine off an underage hooker at this point. We all know this. So we have to let go of this pipe dream.

So, knowing that, what is the next best alternative? New OC and DC coordinators. I don't know how Fitch is as a playcaller or as someone who designs plays. In my next OC, I want someone above all who is a good PLAYCALLER. Someone who has flow and builds off of previous plays. Someone who is creative.

In a DC, I'm not looking for a mad scientist. We have some dumb players out there, so I want someone who will simplify the scheme and maximize what these guys do best.

Above all, we need 2 coordinators focused on DETAIL. We need guys drilling all of the little things. We also need guys who aren't fckin stubborn and prideful. If you are getting gashed versus the run, then why not adjust to a front 4 defensive lineup? I guarantee you the Cheats will have an extra Dlineman ready on Sunday to plug the holes. They will put less pressure on the safeties to over commit and they won't be suckers for play action.

Butler had the whole year to fix the run D and he never did. He never adjusted. He kept trotting out the same formation even against shit QBs. He had all season to correct the miscommunications in the secondary. It never happened. He should have been fired a long time ago.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:17 am 
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Old School Steeler wrote:
The shareholders have every right and motive to add value to their shares/investment and nothing adds value to a NFL franchise like a SB. Isolating the NE and Jax playoff games Tomlin is an impediment to increasing value.

The issue for MM in Nashville was talent and ownership. Example, ownership demanded drafting Vince Young.

Once this light illuminated the shareholders will not back down. They know they've got one more season with this offense and then poof it's gone. Tomlin cannot adapt if given one more chance, he's incapable. It's now, very soon or it'll be wasted.


We've got to be really careful here that we're not projecting our own beliefs onto the as-yet unnamed minority owners.

I agree with your post here (except the MM "talent-only" bit, but we can agree to disagree. MM has done a great job with the line- I am dubious that translates to a quality HC, except maybe for the tight, disciplined approach bit). And some of the quotes suggest the minority owners might be thinking this. But we don't really know.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:20 am 
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franco32 wrote:
The only way Tomlin is fired is if he is caught sniffing cocaine off an underage hooker at this point. We all know this. So we have to let go of this pipe dream.

So, knowing that, what is the next best alternative? New OC and DC coordinators. I don't know how Fitch is as a playcaller or as someone who designs plays. In my next OC, I want someone above all who is a good PLAYCALLER. Someone who has flow and builds off of previous plays. Someone who is creative.

In a DC, I'm not looking for a mad scientist. We have some dumb players out there, so I want someone who will simplify the scheme and maximize what these guys do best.

Above all, we need 2 coordinators focused on DETAIL. We need guys drilling all of the little things. We also need guys who aren't fckin stubborn and prideful. If you are getting gashed versus the run, then why not adjust to a front 4 defensive lineup? I guarantee you the Cheats will have an extra Dlineman ready on Sunday to plug the holes. They will put less pressure on the safeties to over commit and they won't be suckers for play action.

Butler had the whole year to fix the run D and he never did. He never adjusted. He kept trotting out the same formation even against shit QBs. He had all season to correct the miscommunications in the secondary. It never happened. He should have been fired a long time ago.


Yep- in a nutshell:

1) On offense, we need an OC who will design the offense around what our skill players do BEST.
2) On defense, we need someone who will come up with a simple effective scheme that teaches discipline and cuts down on communication errors.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:36 am 
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One wildcard in all of this is Mike Munchak. He is one person who I could see the Rooneys replacing Tomlin. Munchak at HC, Fichtner at OC, and a new DC would be a nice mixture of change and stability, and it would prevent the Steelers from losing their best coaching asset.

EDIT: I see that this has already been discussed. I understand that Munchak wasn't particularly successful in his first stint as HC, but maybe he's learned some things, and maybe he'd be just enough of a change to bridge the gap. I'm not in the die-hard fire Tomlin camp at the moment, but I would not like seeing Munchak leave.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:40 am 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
One wildcard in all of this is Mike Munchak. He is one person who I could see the Rooneys replacing Tomlin. Munchak at HC, Fichtner at OC, and a new DC would be a nice mixture of change and stability, and it would prevent the Steelers from losing their best coaching asset.

EDIT: I see that this has already been discussed. I understand that Munchak wasn't particularly successful in his first stint as HC, but maybe he's learned some things, and maybe he'd be just enough of a change to bridge the gap. I'm not in the die-hard fire Tomlin camp at the moment, but I would not like seeing Munchak leave.


Munchak took himself out of consideration for the Cards' job. Schefter just reported it.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:41 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
W&M_Steeler wrote:
One wildcard in all of this is Mike Munchak. He is one person who I could see the Rooneys replacing Tomlin. Munchak at HC, Fichtner at OC, and a new DC would be a nice mixture of change and stability, and it would prevent the Steelers from losing their best coaching asset.

EDIT: I see that this has already been discussed. I understand that Munchak wasn't particularly successful in his first stint as HC, but maybe he's learned some things, and maybe he'd be just enough of a change to bridge the gap. I'm not in the die-hard fire Tomlin camp at the moment, but I would not like seeing Munchak leave.


Munchak took himself out of consideration for the Cards' job. Schefter just reported it.


I just saw that too. Good. That makes me think that something is brewing behind the scenes in Pittsburgh.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:57 am 
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franco32 wrote:
Butler had the whole year to fix the run D and he never did. He never adjusted. He kept trotting out the same formation even against shit QBs. He had all season to correct the miscommunications in the secondary. It never happened. He should have been fired a long time ago.


It's the Steeler way bullshit, can't fire coach, must be 3-4 forever, can't change, EVER! Why is that? the '70s Steelers won with 4-3, then one day in the '80s, they made it 3-4, and since then it's like a religion, CAN'T CHANGE IT EVER. I still often feel like they want to play the Cowher ball control, keep it close, chew clock game, even though they should try to score fast, fast, fast and purposely turn every game into a track meet with this talent.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:26 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Stallworth16 wrote:
So Old School who would you hire as Head Coach for Ben's last years?

My original point is that when playoff teams fire their head coach it usually doesn't go well.


So you're just fine with Tomlin then? You're good with the playoff failure of the past nine seasons with the talent this team has had? You're okay with his teams being the Patriots' and Belichick's bitch? You like all the fucking drama such as players tweeting, talking shit right outside the opponent's locker room, and Facebook Live casts from their own locker room? You were happy with what transpired on Sunday in Pittsburgh with horrendous play calling, a fucking sieve defense that couldn't stop you, me and nine other guys we could pick up off the street for an offense? Well, I guess I can add you to the list of Tomlin defenders left.


No one is happy with playoff failures. But it's not as if every year they're getting to the playoffs fully healthy with a team as good as they had this year offensively.

The team wasn't that good the year they lost to Tebow. Should've won that game but Lebeau's defense failed.

They lost to Baltimore because they were on their 3rd string rb after Blount walked out.

They lost to Denver bc they had no Bell and no AB.

They lost to NE last year because of the defense and Bell getting hurt.

This is the first year in recent memory where there's no excuse for losing in the playoffs when they did.

I'm becoming less and less of a Tomlin fan with each year but I'm not ready to fire him yet.

the tebow loss was easily the worst Steelers playoff loss since 1986, and maybe ever. I ranked them based on relative DVOA and it looks like this:
Worst PIT Playoff Losses By DVOA
year PIT DVOA DVOA OPP difference

2011 PIT 22.6 -11.8 ....@DEN 34.4
1994 PIT 29.8 10.6 ....SD 19.2
2017 PIT 27.1 13.1 ....JAX 14
2010 PIT 35.4 23 ....GB* 12.4
2001 PIT 17.3 7.9 ....NE 9.4
1996 PIT 18.1 10.1 ....@NE 8
2015 PIT 21.3 17.7 ....@DEN 3.6
2004 PIT 37.6 34.2 ....NE 3.4
1992 PIT 15.4 16 ....BUF -0.6
2002 PIT 6.8 9.2 ....@TEN -2.4
1997 PIT 27 29.6 ....DEN -2.6
2007 PIT 19.4 24.1 ....JAX -4.7
1993 PIT 12.4 19.9 ....@KC -7.5
2016 PIT 17.1 24.9 ....@NE -7.8
2014 PIT 12.1 21.9 ....BAL -9.8
1995 PIT 20.7 32.7 ....DAL* -12
1989 PIT -8.7 19 ....@DEN -27.7

* = Super Bowl

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:31 pm 
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The loss to Green Bay should be pushed down that list because if I had to guess, I’d guess Green Bay’s DVOA was depressed because Aaron Rodgers missed a few games.

Also we lost the anchor of our OL to injury right before the Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
The loss to Green Bay should be pushed down that list because if I had to guess, I’d guess Green Bay’s DVOA was depressed because Aaron Rodgers missed a few games.

Also we lost the anchor of our OL to injury right before the Super Bowl.
And the Tebow loss was a result of losing hampton and kiesel in the second qtr. Safety's abandoned their over the top coverage to help in defending the run option.

They only had one guy out this year, and had a number of weeks to address the problem. Last year they were relatively healthy on defense, and also got humiliated.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:38 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
The loss to Green Bay should be pushed down that list because if I had to guess, I’d guess Green Bay’s DVOA was depressed because Aaron Rodgers missed a few games.

Also we lost the anchor of our OL to injury right before the Super Bowl.
And the Tebow loss was a result of losing hampton and kiesel in the second qtr. Safety's abandoned their over the top coverage to help in defending the run option.

They only had one guy out this year, and had a number of weeks to address the problem. Last year they were relatively healthy on defense, and also got humiliated.

NE was way better than PIT last year, even with Lev Bell. Face facts.

DEN was so much worse than PIT that even losing some DL shouldn't have been enough to screw the pooch.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:44 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
I can stand on the sidelines like a deer in the headlights too.

Can you do what Tomlin does Mon.-Saturday? Has your agent been contacting NFL teams? Let us know when you land an NFL head coaching job.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
The loss to Green Bay should be pushed down that list because if I had to guess, I’d guess Green Bay’s DVOA was depressed because Aaron Rodgers missed a few games.

Also we lost the anchor of our OL to injury right before the Super Bowl.
And the Tebow loss was a result of losing hampton and kiesel in the second qtr. Safety's abandoned their over the top coverage to help in defending the run option.

They only had one guy out this year, and had a number of weeks to address the problem. Last year they were relatively healthy on defense, and also got humiliated.


Also no Ryan Clark because of sickle cell.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
I can stand on the sidelines like a deer in the headlights too.

Can you do what Tomlin does Mon.-Saturday? Has your agent been contacting NFL teams? Let us know when you land an NFL head coaching job.


Yes. I have a great set of tools to disassemble ping pong tables and I can spew bullshit with the best of them.

Don’t have an agent. But know someone.

Will do. You all can say “I knew him when.....”

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:00 pm 
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This nonsense that you can’t change without some multi year transition period is exactly that ... nonsense. What happened. when Tomlin took over

Is about the talent and the ideas and the hard work

We have one of those things right now

This team so desperately needs new ideas and a focus on maximizing the chances to win by paying attention to the little things. They fail way too often due to a refusal work on anything but what they do


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
It only lowers you chance if you believe Tomlin has the goods to win a SB. If you believe he does, then you don't make a change. Personally I probably make Munchak HC, Fitchner OC, and go find a DC.


If we do this, we should hire Scunge for DC. Then he can implement his new 4-3 ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
It only lowers you chance if you believe Tomlin has the goods to win a SB. If you believe he does, then you don't make a change. Personally I probably make Munchak HC, Fitchner OC, and go find a DC.


If we do this, we should hire Scunge for DC. Then he can implement his new 4-3 ideas.


I am sending Scunge my agent contact info. Hopefully they can strike a deal.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:41 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
It only lowers you chance if you believe Tomlin has the goods to win a SB. If you believe he does, then you don't make a change. Personally I probably make Munchak HC, Fitchner OC, and go find a DC.


If we do this, we should hire Scunge for DC. Then he can implement his new 4-3 ideas.


I am sending Scunge my agent contact info. Hopefully they can strike a deal.


I want B2B as OC. If he turns it down then Nick79.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:58 pm 
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W&M_Steeler wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Munchak took himself out of consideration for the Cards' job. Schefter just reported it.


I just saw that too. Good. That makes me think that something is brewing behind the scenes in Pittsburgh.



Crap. They're going to screw this up - Munchak to OC, Tomlin stays.

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 Post subject: Re: "Other" Steelers owners want to fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
The loss to Green Bay should be pushed down that list because if I had to guess, I’d guess Green Bay’s DVOA was depressed because Aaron Rodgers missed a few games.

Also we lost the anchor of our OL to injury right before the Super Bowl.
And the Tebow loss was a result of losing hampton and kiesel in the second qtr. Safety's abandoned their over the top coverage to help in defending the run option.

They only had one guy out this year, and had a number of weeks to address the problem. Last year they were relatively healthy on defense, and also got humiliated.


Also no Ryan Clark because of sickle cell.


There were also some key offensive injuries before/during the Tebow game as well. Pouncey was out. Mendenhall was out. Max Starks was injured during the game and replaced by Jonathan Scott. Roethlisberger was playing with a high ankle sprain. As was mentioned, both Keisel and Casey Hampton were injured early in the game and missed most of it. That Steelers team was old and riddled with key injuries. Losing to a polarizing figure like Tebow was embarrassing, but the sheer number of significant injuries to key players makes it more understandable.

This Jags loss was far worse than the Tebow loss. This year's team was healthy other than Shazier (and the team had several weeks to adapt to his injury- it's not like it happened during the game, as opposed to the Hampton and Keisel injuries during the Tebow game).

Like I said in the other thread, I think that this was the worst overall Steelers playoff loss since the 1994 AFCC loss to the Chargers. The two games even have a similar feel- arrogant Steelers team overlooking an opponent ends up losing at home. Inexcusable.


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