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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:02 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
BethlehemSteel wrote:
How do we turn up the fire on this fucking bug eyed fraud

Just look at what Marrone took over in one year after the former Jax coach just didn’t know what he was doing either with his dearth of talent


The difference between Jacksonville and Pittsburgh is the burning platform. Jax was a complete friggin' mess...they had to do something.

Like we liked to say at stillers.com..."The good is the enemy of the great".

Tomlin has built his own team and has gone from 8-8 to 13-3 and four straight years in the playoffs. Objectively, that's good.

But merely good shouldn't be acceptable enough for Mike Tomlin. Obviously, it is...and that needs to change.
For me it's the fact that he makes the same mistakes. He's failed to over ride Haley during the game, or rip him an new asshole during the week with stupid play calling. He's been humiliated in the same fashion over and over again and doesn't show a propensity to be flexible. I wonder if a few new coordinators and position coaches can change his mode of thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:06 am 
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SP wrote:
What an embarrassment. A half hour of bullshit sound bites is nothing new, but his responses to direct questions were just awful.

The questions started out centered around all of the talk by him and his team. The Dungy interview. Mitchell and Bells quotes. The guarantees of victory and the obsession with the Patriots. Tomlin shrugged it all off as media creations. Never took ownership of his words or the fact that he doesn’t coach his players not to make statement of disrespect to opponents. All the Jags could talk about after that game was how the Steelers words and actions served as a rallying point of motivation for them. Tomlin blows it off. He gets directly asked about Mitchell stalking the Jags locker room before the game tainting them. Tomlin said it was no big deal. Bullshit like that reflects poorly on the organization, the owners, the fans, the team, the brand, and the head coach. Mike thinks it’s no big deal.

The second round of questions centered around the horrid 4th and short play calls. You have a QB who is 18 for 19in his career on sneaks, best in the NFL by a mile since 2004 and you haven’t run a single sneak in 3 full season? He said they are not opposed to it. Ben said he wants to run the ball. Tomlin lets it slip that there is fear of people diving into Pounceys legs and of Ben getting hurt. Lose playoff games over fear of injury on a sneak. Fear of Injury never led him to teach Ryan Clark or Mike Mitchell or Ryan Shazier how to tackle without launching their head and neck into somebody.

He was also asked to evaluate the offense and the defense and coaching. His answers lead me to believe that there will indeed be changes as he was non-committal to any of the coaches. He also hinted at a retirement by Richard Mann and was asked about Hines Ward possibly being his replacement which Tomlin had no response.

Lastly this was the first time I ever heard shakiness and Mike Tomlin‘s voice. The usual confidence he speaks with was gone and he sounded like a man under much pressure. With the pro football talk report that some owners want him fired you have to wonder if where there is smoke there is fire. 10 years with a Hall of Fame QB and no rings is a big big problem .


Richard Mann is a huge loss. The dude is THE WR whisperer.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:26 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
For me it's the fact that he makes the same mistakes. He's failed to over ride Haley during the game, or rip him an new asshole during the week with stupid play calling. He's been humiliated in the same fashion over and over again and doesn't show a propensity to be flexible. I wonder if a few new coordinators and position coaches can change his mode of thinking.


He makes the same mistakes because he's not been pushed to correct them.

No burning platform, as I've said.

Worse...Mike Tomlin engages in a lot of retrospective analysis. If a sub-optimal approach works, he just assumes it is the way to go.

He doesn't understand the concept that just because something worked, it means it was the best thing to do, or vice-versa.

When it comes to game management, he is very Zen.

Worse...he's admitted he doesn't watch many other games and so is not exposed to other ways of doing things all that much.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:37 am 
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B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


I actually thought that during the game.

But it looks like they don't practice real onside kicks...do you trust them to execute a surprise onside? Those are a bit harder because the formation has to look like a regular kickoff.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:42 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


I actually thought that during the game.

But it looks like they don't practice real onside kicks...do you trust them to execute a surprise onside? Those are a bit harder because the formation has to look like a regular kickoff.

Best way to do a surprise on side kick is for the kicker to do it all himself, though for some reason I believe we tried that in the past and it did not work. Maybe I'm wrong on that. It wouldn't look any different, but to your point, I'd shocked if they practice it and it damn sure didn't go through Tomlin's head at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:07 pm 
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The onside kick was stupid on all levels and reflected the same poor thinking that led them to waste all the time at the end and not hire into the EZ or kick a FG.

How many non surprise onside kicks have this Steelers team tried and executed on ?

How many involved a Fg making it two scores

Regardless of D performance - which Jeemie pointed out wasn’t so bad against expected runs — you make the jags execute and not fumble or maybe they throw incomplete and kick - you have blocked a kick earlier. You don’t hand them the ball


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


Where's the statistical evidence. It has to be bullshit. No freakin' way is the liklihood of recovering an onside kick....in that circumstance....as high, or higher, than getting off of the field with a 3 & out. No freakin' way.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:15 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


Where's the statistical evidence. It has to be bullshit. No freakin' way is the liklihood of recovering an onside kick....in that circumstance....as high, or higher, than getting off of the field with a 3 & out. No freakin' way.


Agreed. Isn't the success rate for the expected onside kicks less than 10%?


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:18 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


Where's the statistical evidence. It has to be bullshit. No freakin' way is the liklihood of recovering an onside kick....in that circumstance....as high, or higher, than getting off of the field with a 3 & out. No freakin' way.


there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics

anyone saying the statistics show there was no difference is lying


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
B2B

I’ve posted earlier that in the heat of the moment I was largely indifferent between the onside and the kickoff. Good to see that borne out by some statiscal evidence.

My bigger criticism of Tomlin was not onsiding on the kick off right before he onside kicked. 1. It wouldn’t be as expected and thus would have had a greater chance to succeed and 2. It likely creates more possessions.


I actually thought that during the game.

But it looks like they don't practice real onside kicks...do you trust them to execute a surprise onside? Those are a bit harder because the formation has to look like a regular kickoff.

Like I said for about the millionth time: how do you know what it looks like in practice? It could be that they look great in practice and the kicker just choked on the two occasions he's had to kick one.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:29 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Like I said for about the millionth time: how do you know what it looks like in practice? It could be that they look great in practice and the kicker just choked on the two occasions he's had to kick one.
It's equally plausible they don't practice it enough. You wouldn't know that unless you were in practices throughout the season. Were you?

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:40 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Like I said for about the millionth time: how do you know what it looks like in practice? It could be that they look great in practice and the kicker just choked on the two occasions he's had to kick one.
It's equally plausible they don't practice it enough. You wouldn't know that unless you were in practices throughout the season. Were you?

It actually isn't equally plausible they don't practice it enough. What do you think they do in STs practice, exactly? Occam's Razor.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


I still don't know what the fuck they were doing on the LAST kickoff.

Yea there's a 1 in a billion chance we recover AND SCORE in that scenario but they just gave the fuck up!! Can anyone explain that?

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:02 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Like I said for about the millionth time: how do you know what it looks like in practice? It could be that they look great in practice and the kicker just choked on the two occasions he's had to kick one.
It's equally plausible they don't practice it enough. You wouldn't know that unless you were in practices throughout the season. Were you?

What do you think they do in STs practice, exactly?
Not practice onside kicks enough. Twice he's blown it in game situations. Sure. Keep practicing it the same number of times, even though you've fucked it up most when it matters.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:17 pm 
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at least he didnt try that Rabona kick again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:55 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
at least he didnt try that Rabona kick again.

Maybe he should have...


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
at least he didnt try that Rabona kick again.

Maybe he should have...




Good point

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


I still don't know what the fuck they were doing on the LAST kickoff.

Yea there's a 1 in a billion chance we recover AND SCORE in that scenario but they just gave the fuck up!! Can anyone explain that?


Tomlin isn’t afraid of failure, so he says. Whatever the flying fuck that means.

Wonder if he caught the end of the Vikes v. Saints game and sees what a few seconds can turn into. And that’s KEENAM throwing to guys like DIGGS (no Ben to AB or Martavis, mind you).


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


Someone gave a somewhat plausible defense that if they call the two timeouts very quickly, it leaves Jacksonville with a run/pass option on third down, and that the Steelers were trying to force Jax to run three times.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Someone gave a somewhat plausible defense that if they call the two timeouts very quickly, it leaves Jacksonville with a run/pass option on third down, and that the Steelers were trying to force Jax to run three times.


Of course - just a year or two ago Tomlin explained letting precious seconds run off the clock as manipulating the other offense by NOT using his TO's.

Maybe he really is dumb enough not to call a QB sneak....

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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


Someone gave a somewhat plausible defense that if they call the two timeouts very quickly, it leaves Jacksonville with a run/pass option on third down, and that the Steelers were trying to force Jax to run three times.

But that's only plausible when there's 2:05 or less on the clock. There was 2:12 or 2:13 when the 1st down play ended.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


Someone gave a somewhat plausible defense that if they call the two timeouts very quickly, it leaves Jacksonville with a run/pass option on third down, and that the Steelers were trying to force Jax to run three times.


I thought we couldn’t stop Jax, which is why we tried the OS kick?


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 Post subject: Re: Tomlin end of season presser
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Anyone want to defend Tomlin not calling a TO before the 2 min warning wasting 6-7 seconds before the stoppage?


Someone gave a somewhat plausible defense that if they call the two timeouts very quickly, it leaves Jacksonville with a run/pass option on third down, and that the Steelers were trying to force Jax to run three times.


Not buying it....one option would be call timeout on 1st down, let clock run to 2 minutes on 2nd, Jax then has to choose between running, force Steelers to use final timeout (they only had two left) or throw, perhaps incomplete, leaving Steelers still with a timeout.

Only time it forces the issue is the team on defense has no timeouts left once clock reaches two minutes, then offense must decide between throwing for a first down, or running and bleeding the clock.

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