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 Post subject: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Are things that are barely talked about.

1. Continuing to let Artie Burns make his soul-crushing mistakes on the field... with a championship team.
Yes, kid has to learn and he probably is going to grow up faster into the player it appears he can be... but it seems like there was a point there when Sutton was ready to start that you could have sat Burns down for a game or a series or two or something to reinforce the message that you make a mistake that egregious, you're going to sit. Lost in all the hoopla about a 50/50 decision where neither choice had more than a miracle chance of working is that Artie completely blew his coverage on a 3rd down play that was otherwise shut down and would have meant the Steelers got the ball back instead of giving up a TD. Not only that, his failure to locate the one deep ball he saw all day––he probably only needed to get in the vicinity of the ball to stop the extremely poor pass––turned the game yet again in favor of Jacksonville.

These crucial mistakes and blowing coverages were NOTHING new for Burns. He's been doing it in nearly every game the Steelers have played this year.

2. Should have taken away playcalling from Haley a year and a half ago, at minimum. If you're going to put your complete trust in your coordinators to call plays, then you also need to make bold moves when their playcalling doesn't add up to the best chance to win.

3. Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season. Resources were spent on an overdrafted RB that mostly went unused and who was outplayed by a veteran signed off the street, a 3rd string developmental project QB, and a long-snapper who lost out to another guy off the street. I know these decision are largely organizational and not just MT but the lack of attention to these two problems ended up destroying a Super Bowl contender's chances at a Lombardi.

4. Gameplans showed some more variety this season compared to last but still were overly conservative on both sides. I can see both sides to the argument about what type of strategy you should have when you have some outlier talent but, if there's one thing that's clear, it's that this Steelers offense as presently construed is giving the opponent a break every time they run it or throw it horizontally. The Steelers defense is giving the opponent the win anytime it is passive in approach. If this is heavily influenced by the choices/plans of coordinators, then as stated above, it has to end. You have a team that makes mistakes, you have to be aggressive and allow them opportunities to answer those mistakes with great plays.

5. Should have put more pressure on assistants to use everybody and get them on the field looks throughout the year. Back before he started being a grouse, James Harrison should have been seeing reps. Brian Allen didn't get a single snap on D this year. Not one. He's the only defensive player who didn't get one, even in blowouts.

6. Never seems fully committed to building a team around his best asset: 7. Give Ben the keys, build a defense that's good enough to get off the field and make an occasional splash play, don't get enamored with running or throwing horizontally, don't be afraid of mistakes.

I think MT is above average NFL coach in the stuff that gets bandied about here... clock, decisions, replays, demeanor. Of course, all of that is debatable and improvement is clearly possible. I actually don't think he's too far off in player management, either. Mike Mitchell (JAX week and more), AB (FB live from locker room), Bell (talking next year's contract during playoffs), Bryant (trade requests) really let him down this last year or so but the trust he puts in the players overall pays off I think. It's like hating Ben's mistakes without realizing that they come with the great plays. I think you make an example of Mike Mitchell, because he's expendable and AB/Bryant/Bell are not.

Anyway, come up with any kind of workable formula on defense and unleash Ben... chances are pretty good this team has a run in them.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:17 pm 
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I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?





Agreed. Good post overall B2B but im not getting that with respect to AB or even Bell, actually any of the outbursts or outlandish stuff of any player also goes back to Tomlin anyway because thats his locker room culture, he enables these guys to act and speak out stuff thats unimportant or even contrary to winning


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:23 pm 
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How many passes defended did artie burns have? I saw him make a couple of crucial plays. Not excusing his brain fart on the long pass that eventually led to a TD. That was inexcusable. But it seems to me Mitchell exposes more of burns' flaws. Aside from being soft in the run game.

And yeah, How did AB let tomlin down?

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Last edited by COR-TEN on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Unless you hire a disciplinarian or a veteran head coach, any new HC will just fawn over and try and curry favor with Ben, Bell, AB, Bryant etc.

And if you do hire a disciplinarian or veteran head coach, he's gonna whip all these guys into shape because they all display some lack of discipline on and/or off the field. That won't work at all.

The grass is always greener...but really...who out there is an improvement? Who out there is going to whip this team into shape to make that final push?

For the sake of argument, would it have been Gruden?

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:30 pm 
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This stupid bug-eyed fuck isn't going anywhere.

Just gotta hope he drops dead or decides he doesn't want to get exposed for the dimwit he most certainly is and hangs 'em up when Roethlisberger does.

Those are the only 2 slivers of hope we have.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?

FB live from locker room

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:34 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
How many passes defended did artie burns have? I saw him make a couple of crucial plays. Not excusing his brain fart on the long pass that eventually led to a TD. That was inexcusable. But it seems to me Mitchell exposes more of burns' flaws. Aside from being soft in the run game.

And yeah, How did AB let tomlin down?

I was more upset with Burns on the Yeldon 3rd down play than the long pass. It's exactly that kind of brainfart dumping my coverage zone mistake he makes every week.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Very well done B2B. A great synopsis of Tomlin's errors by a Tomlin supporter.

Tell me more about your 'horizontal' offense thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:40 pm 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
Unless you hire a disciplinarian or a veteran head coach, any new HC will just fawn over and try and curry favor with Ben, Bell, AB, Bryant etc.

And if you do hire a disciplinarian or veteran head coach, he's gonna whip all these guys into shape because they all display some lack of discipline on and/or off the field. That won't work at all.

The grass is always greener...but really...who out there is an improvement? Who out there is going to whip this team into shape to make that final push?

For the sake of argument, would it have been Gruden?

I think this is the reality of where we're at. Ownership and players are way better off in short term trying to affect change with present HC than they would be with virtually any change there. There's a miniscule possibility you could find a HC to step in and upgrade but that's an awfully big risk.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm 
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How do we remove this clown show

Tomlin isnt changing

He’s getting worse

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?

FB live from locker room


That was last year

Tomlin should be down on his knees blowing AB and Ben because if not for them, he would've been even more embarrased on Sunday

And speaking of the FB thing, why is there always drama with this team?

-Bell Franchise tag talk during the week
-FB live post
-Ben retirement talk
-JH being benched
-JH being released
-Mitchell running his mouth on Twitter
-Mitchell showing up outside the opponents lockerroom
-Tomlin giving the interview re: the Pats

I'm sure I've missed something because there's so much shit, but for a coach who supposedly "has the pulse of his team" he sure lets a ton of shit go and it reeks that the inmates are running things.

How does anyone explain that


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Many players on the team said what the outside world made a big deal of - perceived distractions - but were no big deal in the locker room. Maybe DeCastro mentioned the Mitchell shit, but other than that, nobody cared about the other stuff.

At least that's what they said. Looking at some of the highlights, it appears the defense made a few key mistakes, missed gap integrity, and were lacking speed on defense. They also came out flat. The offense stalled and we subject to haleyisms.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
Very well done B2B. A great synopsis of Tomlin's errors by a Tomlin supporter.

Tell me more about your 'horizontal' offense thoughts

I think they should only be using quick screens and run game as an appetizer/change of pace/endgame. We just destroyed two of the best pass defenses in the NFL with vertical passing. Even in game 1 vs Jacksonville, 1st downs were shockingly great when throwing vertically and shockingly bad when running or going horizontal.

The horizontal extension of the run game is not entirely new with Haley but he became so beholden to it... like he had this aversion to going to vertical passing game unless absolutely necessary. But, look at the effectiveness of the vertical pass game! I challenge anyone to show me a better vertical pass game in the history of the game. I can think of a few as good in the Super Bowl era, but I'd be hard-pressed to think of a more efficient and spectacular one. If we can't ride that and a HOF QB to a SuperBowl, I'll eat this post. Just get out of the way of Ben and spend 90% of your time on building a reliable defense and STs. You want the high-priced and über-talented offense to carry the D, well then let it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?

FB live from locker room


That was last year


bradshaw2ben wrote:
Mike Mitchell (JAX week and more), AB (FB live from locker room), Bell (talking next year's contract during playoffs), Bryant (trade requests) really let him down this last year or so but the trust he puts in the players overall pays off I think.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
I love number 4.

AB let Tomlin down? Because of the temper tantrum early on?

FB live from locker room


That was last year

Tomlin should be down on his knees blowing AB and Ben because if not for them, he would've been even more embarrased on Sunday

And speaking of the FB thing, why is there always drama with this team?

-Bell Franchise tag talk during the week
-FB live post
-Ben retirement talk
-JH being benched
-JH being released
-Mitchell running his mouth on Twitter
-Mitchell showing up outside the opponents lockerroom
-Tomlin giving the interview re: the Pats

I'm sure I've missed something because there's so much shit, but for a coach who supposedly "has the pulse of his team" he sure lets a ton of shit go and it reeks that the inmates are running things.

How does anyone explain that


Perception is reality, especially when failure is the outcome. Tomlin's elephant in the room conversation, Ben (and Alualu) saying "I want a rematch with Jax", Mitchell saying ...too much, and Bell ---
All of this stuff is 10X more offensive in light of the Steelers' playoff loss. Tomlin needs to learn from this. I've said it before, you announce how you're going to beat the next opponent, and that opponent will never surrender to you. He (they) will play harder and when he would normally throw in the towel, he will keep competing until he has nothing left. I'm OK with the team being far less transparent than it currently is. Just compete, and STFU...beginning with Tomlin, Ben, and Bell...

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:06 pm 
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44LetzRide wrote:
Perception is reality, especially when failure is the outcome. Tomlin's elephant in the room conversation, Ben (and Alualu) saying "I want a rematch with Jax", Mitchell saying ...too much, and Bell ---
All of this stuff is 10X more offensive in light of the Steelers' playoff loss. Tomlin needs to learn from this. I've said it before, you announce how you're going to beat the next opponent, and that opponent will never surrender to you. He (they) will play harder and when he would normally throw in the towel, he will keep competing until he has nothing left. I'm OK with the team being far less transparent than it currently is. Just compete, and STFU...beginning with Tomlin, Ben, and Bell...


I don't really necessarily believe pre-game talking has much impact on wins/losses, as a whole. I wouldn't do it and would prefer it not be done, but in reality, I think it's overblown.

It's not the reason the Steelers lost. It's just a good storyline that is getting play because they lost. The Steelers lost because their defense sucks balls. The Steelers lost because they were poorly prepared, executed abysmally and had a stupid plan of attack on offense that only changed due to getting their asses handed to them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:08 pm 
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44, gotta say, if Ben publicizing his desire for rematches gets me 5TDs and 500 yards out of him in the playoffs, then next year I want Ben taking shots all week prior to rematches. :lol:

I know Ben had two giant fuck ups, but I cannot remember a QB single handedly willing his team on. Ben, despite his 14 point give away, played out of his mind. Those 4th down TDs were utterly nuts.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
44, gotta say, if Ben publicizing his desire for rematches gets me 5TDs and 500 yards out of him in the playoffs, then next year I want Ben taking shots all week prior to rematches. :lol:

I know Ben had two giant fuck ups, but I cannot remember a QB single handedly willing his team on. Ben, despite his 14 point give away, played out of his mind. Those 4th down TDs were utterly nuts.


Agreed. Absolutely nothing inflammatory about Ben and Alualu stating they wanted a redo vs Jville. Shit, any competitor that gets their ass handed to them is going to want a shot at redemtion.

And, honestly, WTF is the Jville D spouting off about anyways. They got abused all over the field. Ben and AB torched the fuck out of that vaunted secondary. Jville's offense is the only unit that should have a clear conscious and bragging rights.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best Case For Heat On Tomlin
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:00 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
44, gotta say, if Ben publicizing his desire for rematches gets me 5TDs and 500 yards out of him in the playoffs, then next year I want Ben taking shots all week prior to rematches. :lol:

I know Ben had two giant fuck ups, but I cannot remember a QB single handedly willing his team on. Ben, despite his 14 point give away, played out of his mind. Those 4th down TDs were utterly nuts.


Agreed. Absolutely nothing inflammatory about Ben and Alualu stating they wanted a redo vs Jville. Shit, any competitor that gets their ass handed to them is going to want a shot at redemtion.

And, honestly, WTF is the Jville D spouting off about anyways. They got abused all over the field. Ben and AB torched the fuck out of that vaunted secondary. Jville's offense is the only unit that should have a clear conscious and bragging rights.


Yep, was talking to a friend about this a few days ago. From their interviews, they make it sound like they stopped the killer B's dead in their tracks - when in fact, they got the hell run over! If our D wasn't a complete disaster, the Steelers would have beaten them and moved on without a doubt.


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