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 Post subject: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm 
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On his twitter account Jim Wexell is telling everyone that Tomlin has as much input to the defense as Butler does which is why he won't fire Butler- it would basically be firing himself because he is responsible for the defense.

What the fuck else does anyone need to know about Mike Tomlin? This defense got its ass handed to it like no other I can remember in a Steeler playoff game. A one dimensional attack with a good(NOT GREAT) running back pounded the shit out of this defense at home when we knew all they could do was run. But we were so inept stopping the run we actually opened the play action game up for Blake Bortles. Did anyone see the Jaguars the previous week? It is a serious question.

How the hell is this defense supposed to get better if the same coaches will be teaching players and responsible for schemes next year. Even with a draft pick or free agent signing, this defense has major problems with the same cast of coaches coming back.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:47 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
On his twitter account Jim Wexell is telling everyone that Tomlin has as much input to the defense as Butler does which is why he won't fire Butler- it would basically be firing himself because he is responsible for the defense.

What the fuck else does anyone need to know about Mike Tomlin? This defense got its ass handed to it like no other I can remember in a Steeler playoff game. A one dimensional attack with a good(NOT GREAT) running back pounded the shit out of this defense at home when we knew all they could do was run. But we were so inept stopping the run we actually opened the play action game up for Blake Bortles. Did anyone see the Jaguars the previous week? It is a serious question.

How the hell is this defense supposed to get better if the same coaches will be teaching players and responsible for schemes next year. Even with a draft pick or free agent signing, this defense has major problems with the same cast of coaches coming back.


I'm done.

Mods, how do I change my handle to FT?

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Actually in watching that game again, the focus of the gameplan was to keep Bortles in the pocket and not necessarily to beat blocks and get to Fournette in the backfield before he picks up steam. Way to much thinking, reading and reacting as opposed to attacking.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:50 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Actually in watching that game again, the focus of the gameplan was to keep Bortles in the pocket and not necessarily to beat blocks and get to Fournette in the backfield before he picks up steam. Way to much thinking, reading and reacting as opposed to attacking.


Weird bc I recall Bortles scampering for yardage on a few occasions.

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Actually in watching that game again, the focus of the gameplan was to keep Bortles in the pocket and not necessarily to beat blocks and get to Fournette in the backfield before he picks up steam. Way to much thinking, reading and reacting as opposed to attacking.


Weird bc I recall Bortles scampering for yardage on a few occasions.



ya i didnt say they did a bang up job of said gameplan jsut that seemed to be the focus of it.


Last edited by GreekSteel on Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:55 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Actually in watching that game again, the focus of the gameplan was to keep Bortles in the pocket and not necessarily to beat blocks and get to Fournette in the backfield before he picks up steam. Way to much thinking, reading and reacting as opposed to attacking.


Weird bc I recall Bortles scampering for yardage on a few occasions.



ya i didnt say they did a bang up job of said gameplan jsut that was semed to be the focus of it.


We're on the same page.

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:59 pm 
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It's my biggest concern with Tomlin

D has been bad in past with him (old, slow..etc), but once Lebeau was gone I said I'd give him a few years with "his guy", "his D".

D is not good.

Now I find myself saying same thing with O. By most accounts, Haley was not his guy, so he'll get a chance with "his guy". But my God if the results end up being the same as the D...

As far as not firing Butler because of this, not sure how much stock I put into that. Most head coaches have a specialty that they contribute more heavily towards than the other side of the ball (I presume). Some coaches are known as "offensive", some "defensive". But the coordinators are fired anyway. Perhaps it plays out as Wexell says, but it's not necessarily a given the way he is putting it.

But if Wexell is correct in the distinction that Tomlin won't fire a DC because of his input into the D....then maybe we can infer that Tomlin gave his OC more flexibility and didn't have much input there and that speculation (by some here) was accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:01 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
On his twitter account Jim Wexell is telling everyone that Tomlin has as much input to the defense as Butler does which is why he won't fire Butler- it would basically be firing himself because he is responsible for the defense.

What the fuck else does anyone need to know about Mike Tomlin? This defense got its ass handed to it like no other I can remember in a Steeler playoff game. A one dimensional attack with a good(NOT GREAT) running back pounded the shit out of this defense at home when we knew all they could do was run. But we were so inept stopping the run we actually opened the play action game up for Blake Bortles. Did anyone see the Jaguars the previous week? It is a serious question.

How the hell is this defense supposed to get better if the same coaches will be teaching players and responsible for schemes next year. Even with a draft pick or free agent signing, this defense has major problems with the same cast of coaches coming back.


Not making excuses, but did you notice that the entire front 7 was pushed around by Jax? Jax was not just more physical, but they were pushing the defense wherever they wanted to put them. As the two teams currently stand, this matchup would yield similar results in the trenches over and over. This does not excuse poor defense on screens and missed tackles that turned losses into 20, 30, 40 yard gains. Fournette is a bonafide beast, but having a free run at our undersized ILB's makes him look a lot bigger. When Dupree is either replaced or coached better, along with the ILB corps restocked - this will all play out differently. This matchup is a very tough one for the Steelers defense - even worse when miscues happen repeatedly.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:01 pm 
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I think it's mostly on the players. Playing the run is mostly want-to, not scheme. We got our asses handed to us up front. Could we have sold out scheme-wise even more? Sure, but I'm not sure to what degree it would have helped.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Tell me a young player that looked better this year. I think Hargrave and Burns definitely regressed. At best Sean Davis remained the same. And I dare anyone to take the time to actually just rewatch some games and focus on Bud Dupree. The guy is horrible. He has no push and all too often gets collapsed in the run game. And while Watt flashed at times he is by no means a guarantee either(at least not with the coaches around to groom him)

And I'm sorry. I love Cam Heyward. But for the money invested in him and Tuitt they just aren't destructive enough. Was Tuitt hurt all year. Because he was JUST A GUY way too much down the stretch. If Tomlin is in fact intent on making this his personal project I don't see how the hell we get better to the degree we need to get better. You need a lot of help on that defense. Even leaving the defensive line alone(which you really shouldn't because Hargrave is a major liablity in the run game) you need 2 inside backers("Bince" isn't a starter) you need a free safety and you really need to get an outside backer. Is Dupree's light finally going to come on next year.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:07 pm 
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stillenigma wrote:
I think it's mostly on the players. Playing the run is mostly want-to, not scheme. We got our asses handed to us up front. Could we have sold out scheme-wise even more? Sure, but I'm not sure to what degree it would have helped.


Well in my opinion we have major problems then. I can't remember an asskicking like this. Fred Taylor racked up some yards in 99 but there is too many picks and money invested for this stuff to be happening. Doesn't Tomlin have a lot of input into what defensive players we select? If so, why the hell should we expect us to all the sudden find some players with want to in this next draft.

I'm not saying this is all on Tomlin. But I definitely think he is a major part of the problem. And shamefully, I think there's a damn good chance Ben's clock expires before these guys get it right. Quite frankly, I don't foresee Tomlin and Butler ever getting this shit right. What logical reason is there to suggest- Mike and Keith will fix this next year(or even in 2019??)


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:09 pm 
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I'm sorry but here's another thing. For the people talking about a bad matchup. Are people actually suggesting that given 2 weeks to prepare there aren't coaches (with the exact same players Tomlin and Butler had to work with) who could not have devised a plan to stop Fournette, Bortles, that Olne and receivers at home?? Seriously, does anyone truly believe that?


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:23 pm 
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We were shown what the “standard” is years ago.

Nothing has or will change and we will continue to be a paper tiger and postseason pushover & pretender.

This idiot can’t even put a mediocre defensive product on the field.

NE doesn’t have a vaunted defense and I bet the the Jville offesne looks like the the Jville offense again.

Last game I went to was the 43-23 Sunday Night Football beatdown we laid on Baltimore back in 2014. Was thinking about planning a trip for next season and was talking about it with fam before the game.

No way in hell I’m buying plane tickets, rental car, hotel, tix for game etc for a team that so grossly underachieves and then thinks those results are simply the result of a lil execution error here or there.

Losses happen. But whatever have are head in the sand losses with a coach that hasn’t a freaking clue how to get this team to the next level.

Worse is that he is actually a negative detractor from performance.


Last edited by 955876 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Wasn’t Tuitt literally hurt on the first defensive series the first game of the year @ Cleveland?

Me thinks there is something seriously wrong with that guy.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm 
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stillenigma wrote:
I think it's mostly on the players. Playing the run is mostly want-to, not scheme. We got our asses handed to us up front. Could we have sold out scheme-wise even more? Sure, but I'm not sure to what degree it would have helped.
I'm in agreement with you.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:28 pm 
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He may be right in this instance, but Wexell has very little credibility for me on football matters.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:42 pm 
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jewelsongs wrote:
Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


Tomlin makes adjustment? I never knew


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
jewelsongs wrote:
Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


Tomlin makes adjustment? I never knew


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
I'm sorry but here's another thing. For the people talking about a bad matchup. Are people actually suggesting that given 2 weeks to prepare there aren't coaches (with the exact same players Tomlin and Butler had to work with) who could not have devised a plan to stop Fournette, Bortles, that Olne and receivers at home?? Seriously, does anyone truly believe that?


No. They could devise a plan. But some teams DO struggle against others because of matchup considerations. That doesn't absolve this team for what transpired this past weekend.

But it does explain why a team like Buffalo could hold Jax to 10 and Pitt struggle more against Jax than Buffalo did. It does not explain or excuse the extent to which the Steelers struggled (shit the bed).


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:58 pm 
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This team, and defense, largely feasted on bad teams led by back-up or shit QB's. They were a paper tiger all year, carried purely by Bell, AB and Ben for the most part.

Butler said in an article back in Aug(?) that Tomlin has a lot of input on both sides of the ball and is very involved.

EMR won't fire Butler because Butler passed up jobs waiting for Lebeau to leave, and EMR won't pull the rug out after just a few years.


Looking forward to 9-10 wins next year and, if we're lucky, maybe another playoff game.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
This team, and defense, largely feasted on bad teams led by back-up or shit QB's. They were a paper tiger all year, carried purely by Bell, AB and Ben for the most part.

Butler said in an article back in Aug(?) that Tomlin has a lot of input on both sides of the ball and is very involved.

EMR won't fire Butler because Butler passed up jobs waiting for Lebeau to leave, and EMR won't pull the rug out after just a few years.


Looking forward to 9-10 wins next year and, if we're lucky, maybe another playoff game.


Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.

I know it's impossible to know who will be good or bad next year. But I think our schedule and path is going to be a lot harder. Even with the alleged trouble in New England I think we will have our work cut out to get a bye.

And if we don't get a ring next year I expect to hear more excuses about Tomlin, how good his record is, and how we just need a tweak here or there.

THIS WAS THE YEAR and they completely fucked it up.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:26 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


He keeps the jello in the box.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:26 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


Dead on

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