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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:07 pm 
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stillenigma wrote:
I think it's mostly on the players. Playing the run is mostly want-to, not scheme. We got our asses handed to us up front. Could we have sold out scheme-wise even more? Sure, but I'm not sure to what degree it would have helped.


Well in my opinion we have major problems then. I can't remember an asskicking like this. Fred Taylor racked up some yards in 99 but there is too many picks and money invested for this stuff to be happening. Doesn't Tomlin have a lot of input into what defensive players we select? If so, why the hell should we expect us to all the sudden find some players with want to in this next draft.

I'm not saying this is all on Tomlin. But I definitely think he is a major part of the problem. And shamefully, I think there's a damn good chance Ben's clock expires before these guys get it right. Quite frankly, I don't foresee Tomlin and Butler ever getting this shit right. What logical reason is there to suggest- Mike and Keith will fix this next year(or even in 2019??)


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:09 pm 
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I'm sorry but here's another thing. For the people talking about a bad matchup. Are people actually suggesting that given 2 weeks to prepare there aren't coaches (with the exact same players Tomlin and Butler had to work with) who could not have devised a plan to stop Fournette, Bortles, that Olne and receivers at home?? Seriously, does anyone truly believe that?


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:23 pm 
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We were shown what the “standard” is years ago.

Nothing has or will change and we will continue to be a paper tiger and postseason pushover & pretender.

This idiot can’t even put a mediocre defensive product on the field.

NE doesn’t have a vaunted defense and I bet the the Jville offesne looks like the the Jville offense again.

Last game I went to was the 43-23 Sunday Night Football beatdown we laid on Baltimore back in 2014. Was thinking about planning a trip for next season and was talking about it with fam before the game.

No way in hell I’m buying plane tickets, rental car, hotel, tix for game etc for a team that so grossly underachieves and then thinks those results are simply the result of a lil execution error here or there.

Losses happen. But whatever have are head in the sand losses with a coach that hasn’t a freaking clue how to get this team to the next level.

Worse is that he is actually a negative detractor from performance.


Last edited by 955876 on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Wasn’t Tuitt literally hurt on the first defensive series the first game of the year @ Cleveland?

Me thinks there is something seriously wrong with that guy.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:27 pm 
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stillenigma wrote:
I think it's mostly on the players. Playing the run is mostly want-to, not scheme. We got our asses handed to us up front. Could we have sold out scheme-wise even more? Sure, but I'm not sure to what degree it would have helped.
I'm in agreement with you.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:28 pm 
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He may be right in this instance, but Wexell has very little credibility for me on football matters.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:42 pm 
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jewelsongs wrote:
Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


Tomlin makes adjustment? I never knew


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
jewelsongs wrote:
Bradshaw2Ben made this point in another thread. "Safety and ILB were glaringly light on quality depth going into the season." Then we lost Shazier, and the middle of the D couldn't handle it. Hargrave was sick or hurt in the Jaguar game, which made it worse. Some of the blame for the defense needs to go to Colbert.

My feeling is Tomlin takes too long to make adjustments. Belecheat says if you wait for half time to make adjustments, it is too late. I don't understand keeping all of the defensive coaches. We took way to long to adjust.

You can understand the hole caused by losing Shazier. Players like him are not sitting around waiting to be signed. I don't blame the coaches for that. But we better fix up the middle in the off season.


Tomlin makes adjustment? I never knew


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:46 pm 
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redmanrumbles wrote:
I'm sorry but here's another thing. For the people talking about a bad matchup. Are people actually suggesting that given 2 weeks to prepare there aren't coaches (with the exact same players Tomlin and Butler had to work with) who could not have devised a plan to stop Fournette, Bortles, that Olne and receivers at home?? Seriously, does anyone truly believe that?


No. They could devise a plan. But some teams DO struggle against others because of matchup considerations. That doesn't absolve this team for what transpired this past weekend.

But it does explain why a team like Buffalo could hold Jax to 10 and Pitt struggle more against Jax than Buffalo did. It does not explain or excuse the extent to which the Steelers struggled (shit the bed).


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:58 pm 
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This team, and defense, largely feasted on bad teams led by back-up or shit QB's. They were a paper tiger all year, carried purely by Bell, AB and Ben for the most part.

Butler said in an article back in Aug(?) that Tomlin has a lot of input on both sides of the ball and is very involved.

EMR won't fire Butler because Butler passed up jobs waiting for Lebeau to leave, and EMR won't pull the rug out after just a few years.


Looking forward to 9-10 wins next year and, if we're lucky, maybe another playoff game.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
This team, and defense, largely feasted on bad teams led by back-up or shit QB's. They were a paper tiger all year, carried purely by Bell, AB and Ben for the most part.

Butler said in an article back in Aug(?) that Tomlin has a lot of input on both sides of the ball and is very involved.

EMR won't fire Butler because Butler passed up jobs waiting for Lebeau to leave, and EMR won't pull the rug out after just a few years.


Looking forward to 9-10 wins next year and, if we're lucky, maybe another playoff game.


Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.

I know it's impossible to know who will be good or bad next year. But I think our schedule and path is going to be a lot harder. Even with the alleged trouble in New England I think we will have our work cut out to get a bye.

And if we don't get a ring next year I expect to hear more excuses about Tomlin, how good his record is, and how we just need a tweak here or there.

THIS WAS THE YEAR and they completely fucked it up.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:26 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


He keeps the jello in the box.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:26 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


Dead on

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Same goes with the offense. There's been many pieces written about it, interviews done where the interviewed had insinuated it, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:31 pm 
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955876 wrote:
He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


Unprepared for JAX...TWICE.....Unprepared for that "meaningless" CHI game - win that and NE doesn't matter.

NE does slip up occasionally, but it's rare. They've always understood what a 1 or 2 seed means in advancing to the SB. Belicheat and his players and staff don't "ease into" the season or take weeks off. Tomlin doesn't get that.

Tomlin is perhaps capable of better, but too fat and happy to try.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:32 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
Until Ben retires I don't think the Steelers will ever have an easier path to a SB victory. I'm not saying it was easy- but it doesn't get easier than this. It could have been even easier if they actually put the foot on the gas and seized control of the Patriots game when they had one of the best offenses in football vs a banged up and horrible defense instead of turtling. But predictably, Tomlin and Haley turtled.


Not too mention we would have played Tenn which I dont think even Tomlin could have fucked up.

Meanwhile, a physical Jax team would have went to Foxboro. Now they likely lose but it would have been a hard hitting game so maybe NE limps into Heinz somewhat.

But Tomlin doesn’t live in his fears. Nor does he ever see the big picture and do what is needed to seize the moment.

He pissed away the #1 seed with his idiocy and then got smacked in the mouth by a more physical but far less talented team he yet again wasn’t prepared for.

He’s a dunce.


The amazing thing to me is how this guy is fellated by the local media on a regular basis. Tomlin has done so many stupid things over the years. Stupid as far as demonstrating an understanding of basic math or game theory. The FG kick vs Oakland in 09 that Swiss has referenced. The 2 point conversion from the 13 his first year vs Jax. The fucking onsides kick with 2 timeouts and letting the clock tick down to 1 second instead of kicking a FG where you need 2 scores.

Most of these things are not issues upon which reasonable minds will differ... oh you know such as political philosophy. It's pretty clear that he is either not very intelligent or simply reckless in his decision making. And it's fucking ridiculous that this most likely will continue for the rest of Ben's career because Ben is good enough to prop that record up.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:41 pm 
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The #1 issue with the defense in that game is that Sean Spence fucking sucks and they couldn't or wouldn't take him off the field for anybody else.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:59 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
This team, and defense, largely feasted on bad teams led by back-up or shit QB's. They were a paper tiger all year, carried purely by Bell, AB and Ben for the most part.

Butler said in an article back in Aug(?) that Tomlin has a lot of input on both sides of the ball and is very involved.

EMR won't fire Butler because Butler passed up jobs waiting for Lebeau to leave, and EMR won't pull the rug out after just a few years.

Looking forward to 9-10 wins next year and, if we're lucky, maybe another playoff game.


Good post. In retrospect, I think we were all in denial about how bad this defense was. The second Browns game should have set off alarm bells, but I think we all probably wrote it off as a game the Steelers didn't care about and therefore weren't trying that hard (which is concerning in its own right).

One other thing- I didn't realize until today that Butler and Tomlin coached together before the Steelers- in 1998 at Arkansas State. Butler was on the Steelers' staff for several years before Tomlin was hired. I wonder whether Butler helped Tomlin get an interview during the coaching search. If so, I'd bet Tomlin feels a great amount of loyalty and gratitude towards Butler. No wonder he's hesitant to fire his friend.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Last 5 1st round picks and 3 of the last 5 2nd round picks have gone to the defensive side of the ball, let that sink in for a moment,,,8 of the last top 10 draft picks have been used on the defense, and these guys cant stop a nosebleed against BB and the fkn Jags or the bears, or rickey fuckin hundley or deshone kizer... Tomlin Butler and his coaching hires are all fucking clueless at how to develop defensive players or get the best out of them.

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Last edited by GreekSteel on Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:06 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
The #1 issue with the defense in that game is that Sean Spence fucking sucks and they couldn't or wouldn't take him off the field for anybody else.


Is that the #1 issue? Perhaps. But let's not pretend that Bud Dupree doesn't suck. That Bince Williams isn't a liability all too often. That Jason Hargrave took a step back and got his ass absolutely shellacked at times this year. That neither Sean Davis nor Artie Burns is anything to write home about. But I'm sure all that will work itself out once Tomlin puts his finishing touches on everything.

Let's also not forget that Tomlin was apparently perfectly OK with the paper fucking thin depth at linebacker going into this season. What happened to Shazier was horrific- but let's not act as if it was completely unforeseeable that he would miss time in 2017 at some juncture.


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:11 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Last 5 1st round picks and 3 of the last 5 2nd round picks have gone to the defensive side of the ball, let that sink in for a moment,,,8 of the last top 10 draft picks have been used on the defense, and these guys cant stop a nosebleed against BB and the fkn Jags or the bears, or rickey fuckin hundley or deshone kizer... Tomlin Butler and his coaching hires are all fucking clueless at how to develop players or get the best out of them.


Well at least Tomlin and co will get another crack at it this draft.

“C’mon...no whammies, no whammies, no whammies.... pick!”


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 Post subject: Re: This is Tomlin's defense. What else do you need to know?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Tomlin defense well it's interesting but someone needs to go


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