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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
alancac98 wrote:
Well then, your argument is a moot point! We had Bell this year and still lost, not even making it to the AFCCG. If the scenario is to keep Bell to help out the O with complete disregard of the D, we will never sniff the SB anyway. You think this team will win a SB with as bad as our D is? Your delusional! Watch and Learn son! You don't make it to the big dance with swiss cheese defense!!! So, why pay a guy 15+ mill to come in late for meetings, game days, and walk-thru if you have no chance of winning the SB? He's an arrogant pompous ass and yet you want to reward him with a huge payday - nice! Seems to me, DeAngelo Williams did rather well in our system 2 years ago when Bell was sitting at home. But Bell is this heavenly God talent we can't live without! Bullshit!!! Williams was leading the league in rushing when Bell returned. Since no one is even on the same planet skill wise as Bell, how the hell did that happen?????


Yup. We lost bc our defense was a banana slide lubed with Vaseline on a 60 degree incline. Jax players were getting friction burn from sliding into the end zone too fast.

On the other hand, is Bell's 15 mill on a tag next year going to fix our D?


I don't know, but you won't sniff the SB with our D as it stands right now. Your putting all of your eggs in one basket, hoping the O scores at will, no turnovers and no punts to win a game. Does that sound like a convincing argument?


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Bell is what he is - a mismatch on most LBers.

He is not the 2nd, 3rd or even the 4th best receiving option on the team. He would be worse than mediocre as an actual full-time #2 receiver on most teams. Great hands, but slow for a receiver.

Like I said, I'm not cutting Bell to "save" money. If a difference maker on defense is available, then I'd rescind Bell's tag and do the deal. PIT doesn't roll that way, but if Bell is threatening to sit out then fuck him.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
If they get rid of Bell, they better address his position with someone high quality. I'm talking minimum DeAngelo Williams of 5 years ago or high draft pick. I'm sorry, but Connor was a dumb dumb pick. They passed on star quality RBs for a good story from a local kid.


What exactly is wrong with Connor other than the fact he struggled in pass pro, which can be taught?

I wouldn’t mind using the New Englnd approach of having several backs as opposed to a bell cow.

Especially if you are using a run game to complement an intermediate/vertical passing game...which is what we should be doing with this offense.


To me, Connor looks like a change of pace back. I don't think i'd like him getting 20 carries a game on my team.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:19 pm 
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R S wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
If they get rid of Bell, they better address his position with someone high quality. I'm talking minimum DeAngelo Williams of 5 years ago or high draft pick. I'm sorry, but Connor was a dumb dumb pick. They passed on star quality RBs for a good story from a local kid.


What exactly is wrong with Connor other than the fact he struggled in pass pro, which can be taught?

I wouldn’t mind using the New Englnd approach of having several backs as opposed to a bell cow.

Especially if you are using a run game to complement an intermediate/vertical passing game...which is what we should be doing with this offense.


To me, Connor looks like a change of pace back. I don't think i'd like him getting 20 carries a game on my team.


You won't like it and if Bell leaves, Conner IS going to be the man.

....and it AIN'T gonna go well.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:55 am 
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TFFPK says bell will go to highest bidder in FA and Raiders will make a play

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:32 am 
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It'll be interesting to see what kind of offers he fields. Dude's only finished one season as far as I can remember.


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:43 am 
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KC wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Disagree.

Some coaches can win with less talent. I don't think this coaching staff can. Retain as much talent as possible.

As bad as that D was, this team was 1-2 bad coaching decisions away from pulling that win out of their ass. Non-dumfuck playcalling at momentum killing times could have been the difference. We don't know yet if Fichtner is that difference over Haley, but he might be.

Revise the schematic on D. Change the base D if necessary. Draft D. It's said players love playing for Tomlin? Use that gift of gab to woo a solid FA on D (ILB, S). He's coaching the probowl. Get in someone's ear. Make them as excited at the prospect of playing for you as Swiss gets when he watches the morning news.

As far as O, I would like them to add some kind of scatback. Maybe someone that can return kicks as well. Quick hitter change of pace to Bell.


Right on, Miter. This team needs to keep ALL of the talent it can.

Mike Tomlin is the NFL's version of Tom Crean.

He claps a lot and throws out some old cliches. That's what he's bringing to the table.

Unless somehow this defense adds players the equivalent of Bell, Brown and Roethlisberger, there is NO FUCKING WAY they're in the hunt to win anything.

Without Bell, we'll probably a 9-7, 10-6 team. MAYBE.


Just pay him, if you can get Ben to tell you exactly how many years he will go, even better! Time the cap hits to bury the team the year after Ben retires, I honestly don't care about the cap situation the year after Ben retires, because "next man up" is a laughable fantasy if you're trying to apply it to QB. We could have the rest of the roster, subtract Ben and 13-3 goes instantly to 6-10.


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:03 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
KC wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
Disagree.

Some coaches can win with less talent. I don't think this coaching staff can. Retain as much talent as possible.

As bad as that D was, this team was 1-2 bad coaching decisions away from pulling that win out of their ass. Non-dumfuck playcalling at momentum killing times could have been the difference. We don't know yet if Fichtner is that difference over Haley, but he might be.

Revise the schematic on D. Change the base D if necessary. Draft D. It's said players love playing for Tomlin? Use that gift of gab to woo a solid FA on D (ILB, S). He's coaching the probowl. Get in someone's ear. Make them as excited at the prospect of playing for you as Swiss gets when he watches the morning news.

As far as O, I would like them to add some kind of scatback. Maybe someone that can return kicks as well. Quick hitter change of pace to Bell.


Right on, Miter. This team needs to keep ALL of the talent it can.

Mike Tomlin is the NFL's version of Tom Crean.

He claps a lot and throws out some old cliches. That's what he's bringing to the table.

Unless somehow this defense adds players the equivalent of Bell, Brown and Roethlisberger, there is NO FUCKING WAY they're in the hunt to win anything.

Without Bell, we'll probably a 9-7, 10-6 team. MAYBE.


Just pay him, if you can get Ben to tell you exactly how many years he will go, even better! Time the cap hits to bury the team the year after Ben retires, I honestly don't care about the cap situation the year after Ben retires, because "next man up" is a laughable fantasy if you're trying to apply it to QB. We could have the rest of the roster, subtract Ben and 13-3 goes instantly to 6-10.


regardless if we keep him or not you are correct about how long ben stays... If I owned the team I would sit him down and say listen ben.. I am going to free agent the shit out of this team to get you one/two more rings... because unless we find another ben in the draft.. this team will be the Bengals for a few years after he retires.. even worse if Mikey stays the head job coach..


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:54 am 
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It's not just the $15 million but his demeanor. For attitude alone, Bell should go & for that kind of money there must be a defensive playmaker available in free agency that could uplift our dismal defence. Meanwhile, draft an early round rb to fill the vacancy. Unlike most positions, a rookie rb can start out playing well. So he may not be as great a receiving back, it's not like there aren't enough good receiving options. What other real choice is there, anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:58 am 
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KC wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Okay...STFU....and keep Bell.

This is dumb. We don't want to part with a talent like that. And do what, give the ball to Steven Fuckin' Ridley???


I mean...this shit is fucking INCREDIBLY MORONIC.

Best fucking back in the league...BY A LOT and an incredible, clutch receiver who puts up ridiculous numbers in catches yearly too.

Yeah sure, let's get rid of that.

:lol:

People don't like Bell's attitude. I hope he pisses in Mike Cuntlin's face IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE LOCKER ROOM.

So you would give a 3 year contract at something like16 million per year with much of it upfront to a malcontent rb with no defence to stop the other team from scoring?


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:30 am 
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It's obvious Bell is the best RB in the league. Now, that assignment comes from his ability as a pass catcher and blocker.
His patient style has been figured out by defenses though as reflected in his long run of the year being at 27yds.
Defenses aren't crashing gaps to get Bell. They are pressing the line and letting him make his decision.
He gets decent yardage but nothing game-breaking. When you factor in Bell's mileage, wear-and-tear, off-field issues and constant
$$$ talk, he isn't worth more than 12-13 mil per year. His request of 16-17mil per season is crazy.
You can't do it and the Steelers certainly won't.
IMO, unless you have a handshake deal with a GM to trade Bell when he is FT'd, you let him walk.
Of course you would like to have him next year. However, that 14.5mil could be better spent on acquiring
a start FS and ILB. Pay the 9-10mil per season for Lamarcus Joyner at FS and a good mid-level FA ILB.
This leaves you the ability to take a RB high in a year where there are a surplus of effective runners.
Take your ILB in rd 1 and your RB in rd 2 or 3. Grab an OLB in the other.

FS Starter: Joyner
ILB: Starter to hold down the fort for your 1st rounder
RB: Starter: Conner with a high pick mixed in
OLB: Starters Dupree/Watt with a 2nd/3rd rounder relieving Bud

1. Rashaan Evans ILB
2. Ronald Jones RB
3. Uchenna Nwosu OLB


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:33 am 
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Here's the thing. If you get rid of Bell you sure as fuck better trust that Herm and the boys get this defense improved. Go all the fuck in on that via 2014-15 Broncos.

If not, the only thing you do by shipping off Bell is instead of having an Excellent offense and a poor defense. you have now reduced the offense to average to good and the defense is still poor. LOSING ALL AROUND!

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:49 am 
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R S wrote:
Here's the thing. If you get rid of Bell you sure as fuck better trust that Herm and the boys get this defense improved. Go all the fuck in on that via 2014-15 Broncos.

If not, the only thing you do by shipping off Bell is instead of having an Excellent offense and a poor defense. you have now reduced the offense to average to good and the defense is still poor. LOSING ALL AROUND!


I don't think the drop-off in this offense without Bell is as great as everyone thinks it would be...as long as we can substitute decent quality at the RB position and do what B2B suggests- center the offense around the intermediate/vertical passing game, with the run game being used as a change of pace to keep defenses honest.

Bell's pass-catching abilities are not other-worldly.. I point you to Todd Gurley, who had a 4.7 YPC running average, and a 12.3 yards per reception receiving average (on 64 catches, or about one fewer reception per game than Bell). Oh- and he had 6 receiving TDs to Bell's 2.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:00 pm 
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If Bell were to enter the league as a slot WR he'd never get drafted.

He is simply too slow to be a WR. He can catch, but he just doesn't have the speed.

This is why I don't understand his $17M request.

But I repeat : If this O line is supposed to be so great, does it really matter who is running the ball? When your oline is clearing holes big enough to drive a truck through, you need someone fast enough to get past the second round of tacklers or give them a run for their money when they sell out to stop the run. Bell cannot threaten a long run for a TD. That's supposed to be integral to a RB's skill set, no? This does not make him the best in the league. At all. Especially when you have others that surpass his skill set and can run over or run past defenders at the same time.

And nobody knows what the fuck Conner can do. People judge him based on what they saw the few times he ran the ball, and the RB coach probably told him "No dancing. Hit the hole hard, and keep running straight downfield." I could be mistaken, but watching his highlights at pitt made me think he has the same body type as Bell, and a similar skill set that can be coached. But I would certainly start looking for a Bell replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:08 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
If Bell were to enter the league as a slot WR he'd never get drafted.

He is simply too slow to be a WR. He can catch, but he just doesn't have the speed.

This is why I don't understand his $17M request.

But I repeat : If this O line is supposed to be so great, does it really matter who is running the ball? When your oline is clearing holes big enough to drive a truck through, you need someone fast enough to get past the second round of tacklers or give them a run for their money when they sell out to stop the run. Bell cannot threaten a long run for a TD. That's supposed to be integral to a RB's skill set, no? This does not make him the best in the league. At all. Especially when you have others that surpass his skill set and can run over or run past defenders at the same time.

And nobody knows what the fuck Conner can do. People judge him based on what they saw the few times he ran the ball, and the RB coach probably told him "No dancing. Hit the hole hard, and keep running straight downfield." I could be mistaken, but watching his highlights at pitt made me think he has the same body type as Bell, and a similar skill set that can be coached. But I would certainly start looking for a Bell replacement.


I think that 2017 will prove to lose a lot of money for Bell. His receiving stats were good but only 7.7 ypc? He has become a check down receiver only. Hell 2011 Ray Rice had better overall stats. No way in hell he is worth $16-17 million.


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:12 pm 
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I didn't like what I saw from Conner at all. No wiggle or vision displayed and, worst of all, poor pass pro... big big No No when your team is built around 7.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:20 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I didn't like what I saw from Conner at all. No wiggle or vision displayed and, worst of all, poor pass pro... big big No No when your team is built around 7.


Like I said, the Joe Haden-types you might find in FA for $10M (I know they got a much better deal for Yr1 than that) are rare and huge gambles.

A slam-dunk, top-tier guy is RARELY available in FA. If it happens, I say go for it. But the type of guy you might actually use Bell's money for is likely to be much riskier. In that scenario, I stick with what I know I have in Bell.

Plus, I haven't analyzed the numbers but I expected a deal for Shazier, with Mitchell and Gay going bye-bye. So there should still be a nice chunk of change left after some moves even with franchising Bell.

My main concern, aside from a holdout, is I don't like the idea of Bell needing to play his way into shape over 3-4 games if he skips all of preseason again. They got away with it this year because of the easy schedule.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Oh, I think RB is the easiest position to plug in a rookie.

Also, the draft pool is incredibly deep... take a guy in round 3, as long as you don't overdraft a feel good story guy. Last year they passed on 5 guys that could be going into next year as the starter here with little consternation.

Tarik Cohen would have been awesome. A year of returns and a little slot here, a little RB there... then use him with a RIdley or a bigger back in tandem for 2018. Cohen goes wide in empty set, you've got some serious problems if you don't put a CB on him.

Chris Carson. Another bigger, faster than Lev Bell RB with 3 down skills. Not the player Bell is but would have been a limited drop off and maybe even better than that in Year 2.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Agree with B2B about Conner. He has a long way to go. That said, I think even a scrap heap guy like Ridley can give you 60 percent of what Bell can. A mid-level FA like Damien Williams, Isiahah Crowell or Jerick McKinnon can probably get get you 80 percent of what Bell can. It's simple economics that you can't allocate $15 million to an elite RB versus $8 million on an elite safety, $3 million on a decent RB, and $4 million on a very good ILB. Or prioritize those needs how you will.


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:28 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Also, the draft pool is incredibly deep... take a guy in round 3


Kareem Hunt....pick #86. Ugghhhh

When that drafted frickin' Archer......fastest guy in the draft....I took one look at his highlights and saw no wiggle, power or vision and it was like WHY?!?!?!


I'm just not seeing a huge need to "save" money not tagging Bell unless someone surprisingly becomes available. With the way the cap has been increasing each year, difference makers just don't generally hit the open market.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
Here's the thing. If you get rid of Bell you sure as fuck better trust that Herm and the boys get this defense improved. Go all the fuck in on that via 2014-15 Broncos.

If not, the only thing you do by shipping off Bell is instead of having an Excellent offense and a poor defense. you have now reduced the offense to average to good and the defense is still poor. LOSING ALL AROUND!


I don't think the drop-off in this offense without Bell is as great as everyone thinks it would be...as long as we can substitute decent quality at the RB position and do what B2B suggests- center the offense around the intermediate/vertical passing game, with the run game being used as a change of pace to keep defenses honest.

Bell's pass-catching abilities are not other-worldly.. I point you to Todd Gurley, who had a 4.7 YPC running average, and a 12.3 yards per reception receiving average (on 64 catches, or about one fewer reception per game than Bell). Oh- and he had 6 receiving TDs to Bell's 2.


We’re getting Todd Gurley?

WOW! I like it!!

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Also, the draft pool is incredibly deep... take a guy in round 3


Kareem Hunt....pick #86. Ugghhhh

When that drafted frickin' Archer......fastest guy in the draft....I took one look at his highlights and saw no wiggle, power or vision and it was like WHY?!?!?!


I'm just not seeing a huge need to "save" money not tagging Bell unless someone surprisingly becomes available. With the way the cap has been increasing each year, difference makers just don't generally hit the open market.




in hindsgiht thats the guy they should have went for..Cohen is a nice little player but he aint a bell cow which is what we need for the way tomlin runs the wheels off his backs..Hunt or Dalvin Cook would have looked good, in hindsight of course


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:35 pm 
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KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
R S wrote:
Here's the thing. If you get rid of Bell you sure as fuck better trust that Herm and the boys get this defense improved. Go all the fuck in on that via 2014-15 Broncos.

If not, the only thing you do by shipping off Bell is instead of having an Excellent offense and a poor defense. you have now reduced the offense to average to good and the defense is still poor. LOSING ALL AROUND!


I don't think the drop-off in this offense without Bell is as great as everyone thinks it would be...as long as we can substitute decent quality at the RB position and do what B2B suggests- center the offense around the intermediate/vertical passing game, with the run game being used as a change of pace to keep defenses honest.

Bell's pass-catching abilities are not other-worldly.. I point you to Todd Gurley, who had a 4.7 YPC running average, and a 12.3 yards per reception receiving average (on 64 catches, or about one fewer reception per game than Bell). Oh- and he had 6 receiving TDs to Bell's 2.


We’re getting Todd Gurley?

WOW! I like it!!



:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:42 pm 
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You don't need a bell cow-- you've got Ben Freaking Roehtlisberger and Antonio Brown, JuJu, and Martavis Bryant. You need a guy who can catch it, run it, split out wide, create mismatches, and make the most out his touches. That he is a plus KR & PR for a team that has little there... big bonus.

Hunt was gone by the time we got there in Rd 3, and we needed those other picks for a project QB and a long-snapper, so there was no moving up.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't trade Hunt for Juju. Just take Chris Carson or Aaron Jones on Day 3 last year, use 3c, 4, 6 for a safety, developmental edge or DL, and a backup ILB and we're not having this convo right now... we're talking about how we just beat the Pats at Heinz and wondering if we can get tickets to the Superbowl in Minneapolis.

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 Post subject: Re: To return to Super Bowl, Steelers should run from Le'V B
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Of course we don't need a bell cow with Ben and the loaded talent at wr and te

Mike Tomlin can't imagine an offense without one though.


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