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 Post subject: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:36 pm 
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I know some of you dismiss these thoughts, but for those that are interested....

Dear Dave,



Yes, Haley’s gone. Personally, I felt he did more than a reasonable job as OC and you are right about the off-field stuff. In the old days in the NFL, that kind of stuff happened every day and it was never reported. With all the off-field drinking and bar brawls Bobby Layne use to be involved with, he would have been let loose in one week. The same with coaches. Tomlin had to get the heat off him and letting Haley go did that. The reports that Ben and Haley had their problems make me think of Buddy Parker, our coach with the Steelers. I remember one day, he told us in the locker room, “ I don’t care what you guys think of me or what I think of you, just help me win football games.” Ben has an ego and every OC had problems with him. Ken Whisenhut had big problems with him, when Arians first came in, he had problems and now Haley. Even though Randy Fichtner seems to get along with Ben, you can be sure, there will be disagreements. It’s Ben’s nature, he has an ego.

Now look at Bell, as far as being late for the Saturday walk-thru practice and late for Sunday’s game. Just another episode in the lack of discipline under Tomlin’s watch. Did it affect Bell’s play on Sunday? Well, he made a great TD catch and a lateral from Ben for another TD. His immature antics may create a degree of disunity in the locker room and it may not affect Bell’s play but the mental attitude of his teammates. We have to admit, Dave, never will you see anything like this on a Patriot team, Belechik would never let it happen. Brown, Bryant, Bell and even Ben are the biggest problem why the Steelers fall short. They all have great talent and are the four” B’s” but talent isn’t enough when the “ Bees” are putting their “stinger” in to the team with their personal egos. Joe
Greene said it best when he talked to the Steeler team in the locker room before a game this past season. He said, “ you have to learn to play as a team and not as individuals” In the NFL, you have to have a team leader in the locker room, a true bona fide leader where everybody deeply respects. Chuck Noll operated the same way as Paul Brown, who he played for and I was blessed to have as a teammate. Mike McCormack was our team captain and leader, an outstanding offensive tackle. Paul Brown appointed Mike captain and told him that he was responsible for all that went on in the locker room.. He told Mike that if it involved something that Mike couldn’t handle, then he would go to Paul to tell him about it. Chuck did the same thing with Joe Greene. Back in the 70’s when the Steelers were winning Super Bowls, one year, in the middle of the season, Gilliam, the backup QB was coming late to meetings and it was evident that he was having a drug problem. Joe went to Gilliam, sat down with him and said, “ look, all of us are determined that we want to win another Super Bowl this year. In order to do so, we all have to be on 100 percent mental and physical cylinders. You are not. Stay away from that guy in McKeesport who you are getting your drugs from.” After a weeks went by, Gilliam’s behavior was still indicating drug use. Joe sat down with him again and said, “ look, you refuse to listen, I’m going to the “old man” ( Coach Noll) to tell him you refuse to listen.” Joe went to Chuck, told him and Chuck said, “ Okay, Joe, tell all of the guys to keep it under their hats and when the season is over, Gilliam’s cut.” Within a week, after the season’s end, Chuck cut him. The Steelers won four Super Bowls because of great talent and a great coach who knew how to run and control his team.

Dick LeBeau told me that his 2008 defense was the greatest defensive team he ever coached, on the field and off the field. He said that he had a great team leader in Jim Farrior. He said, “ Jim was like a coach on the field for me and in the locker room, he was a tremendous team leader.” The Steelers won the Super Bowl that year because of great defensive talent and a great defensive coach who his players loved and respected. Tomlin was a benefactor.

God Bless,

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Swiss - what’s Coach P’s background?


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:47 pm 
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No offense Swiss, but Coach P's take blows donkey dick. I think talking about ego is a bullshit explanation for a few reasons. Did Ben not have an ego when he won two super bowls? Did James Harrison not have an ego when he made big plays in the super bowl? Do you think Holmes lacked an ego? Ego is always an ex post just-so story. Why didn't we hear about Ben and Brown's ego after two playoff wins last year?

Also....he focused his take on offense's ego, but nary a word re defense.

Just a really bad, shitty take.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:53 pm 
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What great QB doesn’t have an ego?

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:14 pm 
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You can have an ego, but you need to check it at the door when it comes to team and unity and winning.

The discipline needs to be turned up. We need a new Farrior. Tough to have a similar parallel like the Green/Chuck story these days.

Everyone is too distracted by their own Brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:16 pm 
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BethlehemSteel wrote:
You can have an ego, but you need to check it at the door when it comes to team and unity and winning.

The discipline needs to be turned up. We need a new Farrior. Tough to have a similar parallel like the Green/Chuck story these days.

Everyone is too distracted by their own Brand.


that's a good way to put it.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:28 pm 
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I don't think it's the ego, I think the problem is that Ben - like the HC - would rather be a buddy than a leader. Because being a leader means sometimes you have to yell and be a dick, both of which bother Ben quite a bit.

Maybe the QB doesn't have to be THE leader on the team, but I don't know. AB sets a fine example with his work ethic and competitiveness, but he might be a little too self-involved. Forget Bell.

My guess is it needs to be Heyward and Pouncey.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Swiss - what’s Coach P’s background?


He was my high school coach, Suwanee. He's North Braddock native, went to Pitt...played with some all-time greats there, like Joe Schmidt. After a stint in the army, played for Packers, Steelers, Browns. His roommate in Cleveland Browns camp, in 1958, was Dick LeBeau. LeBeau was drafted in the 4th round out of Ohio State, by the Browns, who cut him.

Priatko and LeBeau have been best of friends ever since. Due to this, Coach P spent alot of time around the Steelers when LeBeau was there.

Other big influence on Priatko were his Browns teammate, Chuck Noll, and of course, Paul Brown, who was his coach with the Browns.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
No offense Swiss, but Coach P's take blows donkey dick. I think talking about ego is a bullshit explanation for a few reasons. Did Ben not have an ego when he won two super bowls? Did James Harrison not have an ego when he made big plays in the super bowl? Do you think Holmes lacked an ego? Ego is always an ex post just-so story. Why didn't we hear about Ben and Brown's ego after two playoff wins last year?

Also....he focused his take on offense's ego, but nary a word re defense.

Just a really bad, shitty take.


I think ego was probably not a great choice of words, Zeke. I know that Coach P has considered Ben to be somewhat of a drama queen (my words, not his). He recognizes Ben's greatness, but has always had a problem with his commentary, willingness to throw others under the bus, etc.

I posted this primarily for all to see the route by which Keith Butler becomes Steeler DC.

Granted, Coach P has intense loyalty to LeBeau, with good reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Kind of agree with Zeke here, Swiss.

On a day the defense got raped, Coach P sends all his barbs the O’s way?’

At least we know he doesn’t like Tomlin. And interesting to “get the heat off himself”, Tomlin had to let Haley go as opposed to make any defensive changes.

Of course, if he was running the D and making the D calls, he would be damning himself if he changed it up there.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Kind of agree with Zeke here, Swiss.

On a day the defense got raped, Coach P sends all his barbs the O’s way?’

At least we know he doesn’t like Tomlin. And interesting to “get the heat off himself”, Tomlin had to let Haley go as opposed to make any defensive changes.

Of course, if he was running the D and making the D calls, he would be damning himself if he changed it up there.


Okay...what you guys don't see is that Coach P's email was a response to my asking him his response to the Haley firing. I'll post that for context.

Trust me, Coach P has little good to say about the Keith Butler defense.

Dear Coach,

I have zero doubt about what you're saying.

The picture of me, my brother Tony and Dick still stands on my office wall, taken after that rain-soaked Kansas City Monday Nighter in 2012.

Haley's gone, Coach, and seemingly as much to do with his off-field as on field stuff. I only wish that Tomlin would be shown the door, too. The Tomlin apologists point to his never having had a losing season, the number of regular-season wins. None of that matters, in my estimation. They also say were the Steelers to fire him, another team would snap him up within hours. I say that he would rapidly be exposed in that situation, without Ben, AB & Leveon.

Rooting for the Jags this weekend.

Best,
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
And interesting to “get the heat off himself”, Tomlin had to let Haley go as opposed to make any defensive changes.


I'd say there was plenty reason to get rid of Haley without it having to be to "get the heat off of himself."

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:35 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Kind of agree with Zeke here, Swiss.

On a day the defense got raped, Coach P sends all his barbs the O’s way?’

At least we know he doesn’t like Tomlin. And interesting to “get the heat off himself”, Tomlin had to let Haley go as opposed to make any defensive changes.

Of course, if he was running the D and making the D calls, he would be damning himself if he changed it up there.


Okay...what you guys don't see is that Coach P's email was a response to my asking him his response to the Haley firing. I'll post that for context.

Trust me, Coach P has little good to say about the Keith Butler defense.

Dear Coach,

I have zero doubt about what you're saying.

The picture of me, my brother Tony and Dick still stands on my office wall, taken after that rain-soaked Kansas City Monday Nighter in 2012.

Haley's gone, Coach, and seemingly as much to do with his off-field as on field stuff. I only wish that Tomlin would be shown the door, too. The Tomlin apologists point to his never having had a losing season, the number of regular-season wins. None of that matters, in my estimation. They also say were the Steelers to fire him, another team would snap him up within hours. I say that he would rapidly be exposed in that situation, without Ben, AB & Leveon.

Rooting for the Jags this weekend.

Best,
Dave


Thanks for the context Swiss.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Thanks for posting Swiss. BTW my newest pet peeve is that when i say i think Tomlin deserves to be fired, the response of, well who would you replace him with??...really bugs the shit out of me... My quick response is who the fuck was Tomlin before he got hired by the Steelers. Moral of the story is, there are many good candidates out there, doesnt need to be a known entity. No fucking defense coaching changes, what a sack of horse fucking shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:10 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Swiss - what’s Coach P’s background?


He was my high school coach, Suwanee. He's North Braddock native, went to Pitt...played with some all-time greats there, like Joe Schmidt. After a stint in the army, played for Packers, Steelers, Browns. His roommate in Cleveland Browns camp, in 1958, was Dick LeBeau. LeBeau was drafted in the 4th round out of Ohio State, by the Browns, who cut him.

Priatko and LeBeau have been best of friends ever since. Due to this, Coach P spent alot of time around the Steelers when LeBeau was there.

Other big influence on Priatko were his Browns teammate, Chuck Noll, and of course, Paul Brown, who was his coach with the Browns.

Sounds like quite the character Swiss -


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:20 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
Swiss - what’s Coach P’s background?


He was my high school coach, Suwanee. He's North Braddock native, went to Pitt...played with some all-time greats there, like Joe Schmidt. After a stint in the army, played for Packers, Steelers, Browns. His roommate in Cleveland Browns camp, in 1958, was Dick LeBeau. LeBeau was drafted in the 4th round out of Ohio State, by the Browns, who cut him.

Priatko and LeBeau have been best of friends ever since. Due to this, Coach P spent alot of time around the Steelers when LeBeau was there.

Other big influence on Priatko were his Browns teammate, Chuck Noll, and of course, Paul Brown, who was his coach with the Browns.

Sounds like quite the character Swiss -


He's a super guy, Suwanee....knows everybody, is amazing with maintaining friendships over decades.

And even the friendships he's made later in life....communicates regularly with Franco, goes to church frequently with Polamalu.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:48 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Thanks for posting Swiss. BTW my newest pet peeve is that when i say i think Tomlin deserves to be fired, the response of, well who would you replace him with??...really bugs the shit out of me... My quick response is who the fuck was Tomlin before he got hired by the Steelers. Moral of the story is, there are many good candidates out there, doesnt need to be a known entity. No fucking defense coaching changes, what a sack of horse fucking shit.


Hopefully this isn't the final word -- didn't Tomfuck leave open the possibility of defensive changes in the press conf?

Just as with Arians, Tomfuck said he was staying, and then a couple weeks later, he was fired.

Hopefully AR2 wakes up and makes some changes on defense.

Even though that's not really the main problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:51 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:

He's a super guy, Suwanee....knows everybody, is amazing with maintaining friendships over decades.

And even the friendships he's made later in life....communicates regularly with Franco, goes to church frequently with Polamalu.

Question: Does Coach P know Dick Haley?

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:53 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:

He's a super guy, Suwanee....knows everybody, is amazing with maintaining friendships over decades.

And even the friendships he's made later in life....communicates regularly with Franco, goes to church frequently with Polamalu.

Question: Does Coach P know Dick Haley?


...course he does.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:58 am 
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Thanks for posting that, Swiss. Coach P. is 90% on the money. The 10% was saying Haley did a reasonable job. That was too kind. Two money quotes: "Just another episode in the lack of discipline under Tomlin’s watch." and "We have to admit, Dave, never will you see anything like this on a Patriot team, Belechik would never let it happen."

Root cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:02 am 
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Obviously wrote:
Thanks for posting that, Swiss. Coach P. is 90% on the money. The 10% was saying Haley did a reasonable job. That was too kind. Two money quotes: "Just another episode in the lack of discipline under Tomlin’s watch." and "We have to admit, Dave, never will you see anything like this on a Patriot team, Belechik would never let it happen."

Root cause.

Compared to Butler I think Haley did an outstanding job so I lean more to coach P’s thinking. It’s still hard for me to see how bad this defense has become. It’s an absolute embarrassment for a Steelers team to field that kind of D. Cam Heyward can preach to those guys on the sideline until he explodes- not going to change shit.

Art2 needs an intervention and this D needs a reinvention.


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:56 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Thanks for posting that, Swiss. Coach P. is 90% on the money. The 10% was saying Haley did a reasonable job. That was too kind. Two money quotes: "Just another episode in the lack of discipline under Tomlin’s watch." and "We have to admit, Dave, never will you see anything like this on a Patriot team, Belechik would never let it happen."

Root cause.

Compared to Butler I think Haley did an outstanding job so I lean more to coach P’s thinking. It’s still hard for me to see how bad this defense has become. It’s an absolute embarrassment for a Steelers team to field that kind of D. Cam Heyward can preach to those guys on the sideline until he explodes- not going to change shit.

Art2 needs an intervention and this D needs a reinvention.


Maybe, but after the defense just left Jacksonville march all over them on the opening drive (for the life of me, I will never understand why Mike Tomlin chose to let his defense- the obvious weak link- open the game), Haley should have realized he needed to cut the offense loose.

Instead he opens five wide and has Ben throwing screens, followed by a second drive where he runs the ball twice (outside against a fast defense one time).

And the fourth and shorts.

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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:20 am 
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Coach P. sent me this at 3:47pm last Sunday. As you can see, like us, he's a Steeler fan, and has the additional history of having played for the team, personally known so many of the people instrumental to the team's success, etc.

Like anyone, tough to be totally, totally objective where personal relationships are involved. This is a guy who....

*Knew Dick Haley, thus knew Todd Haley as a kid. Trust me though... Coach P. knows that Todd Haley is a dick, probably better than any of us, though he would never describe him that way. While Coach P. describes the days of Buddy Parker/Buddy Layne, the drinking, the carousing, etc., I can tell you that he endorses none of that. He's always been a clean-living, spiritual, religious guy. He's the only coach I've ever had that doesn't swear.

I sent him a copy of The Manifesto, before doing so, I went in, extracted all the swears. My brother asked me why I would do that for him, not do it for our mother. My response was that Coach P. never called me a sonofabitch. Mom, rest her soul, denied that, but it's true. It wasn't me individually, but me and my three brothers collectively.....long summer day, my dad still cutting hear in his shop...before, in his words...."The goddamn Beatles ruined my business." We're driving her crazy, she let's out, "You sonsabitches!"

*Has been best friends with Dick Lebeau for 60 years...and has a tough time reconciling that LeBeau was let go for a guy that we can all see, is just a JAG, and the manner in which he was let go.

Been amazing over the years, that Coach P. is usually correct in how he sees Steeler games going. Wish that would have been the case last Sunday...

Dear Dave,

Rather than send this after the game and the Steelers win, I send it now, in the fourth quarter. The game is over. I told Dan when it was 21-0 that not to worry, the Steelers will win. There are certain things in life that are destiny. I could see when the Jacquars picked up the fumble and went in for a TD to make it 28-7. What did it was the taunting call. As a result, the Steelers got the ball at mid-field and went in for Bryant’s TD catch with :35 to go in the half. That was very big. A big play was the Jacquar called for a late hit out of bounds. Our Steeler guy hit the Jacquar in to the out of bounds receiver. We got lucky.

Another sign was when it was 21-0, Polozsny, the Jacquar LB dropped a pick. In fourth quarter, we block a punt, very big. Even though, the Jacquars just scored to make it 35-21, the Steelers will win, it is destiny. It is evident now as it is now 35-28. Let’ see what Bortles does. The Titan DE said, “ when the game is on the line, Bortles will choke.”

Relax, we are on our way to Foxboro, where destiny will continue.

God Bless,

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:29 am 
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when presented with my first opportunity to finally attend a game @ TRS years after my fandom began.....Had the same eeire feeling about overconfidence and too much player talking. capped by that stupid SB video

This aligns with your other OP thread on feeling sorry for us non WPAs


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 Post subject: Re: Coach P's take....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:44 am 
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Thanks for posting that shit, Beth. Being a glutton for punishment, I just watched that entire vid. That game still remains as the most painful in Steeler history, IMO.

Had gotten Mrs. Swiss the fuck outta the house with my then 5-year old daughter to a kids birthday party. Was home watching, my then 2-year old son with me. For a split second, I thought the 4th down pass to Foster was complete. When realized that Dennis Fuckin' Gibson had made the play, I screamed repeatedly...."FUCK...FUCK...FUCK...FUCK!!!" My kid's looking at me, all wide-eyed.

That game sucked....much worse than last week's actually.


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