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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:32 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Bill Belichick picked up James Harrison. That's all I need to know whether or not Deebo had anything left in the tank. It's fucking laughable to me some would trust Tomlin's or Butler's or Porter's judgment over Belichick's.


That means nothing. The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers. They had zero to lose. How many flyers has Belichick taken on castoffs? The act means zero.

That being said, who said anyone trusted Tomlin/Butler over Belichick. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that the Steelers didn't want him and it might have zero to do with whether they thought he could play anymore? Did they dump LeGarrette Blount because they didn't think he could play? How about Santonio Holmes?

Agree or disagree, it isn't hard to come up with reasons why the Steelers decided to move on from him. Reasons other than playing ability.


Let's face it. The real complaint here is that the Steelers did not modify their defensive schemes to accommodate what the strength Harrison has left. My feeling in this is that Harrison simply could not drop into coverage the way they ask their LBs to. And so after he became a malcontent, they dumped his ass. Should Tomlin have modified the defense around Harrison's remaining abilities? I assume some on here are going to say yes. I'm not in a position to make that call.

So I agree that they likely knew James still had some juice in the bottle and dumped his ass anyway. Couldn't do well what they wanted their lbs to do in coverage.

Who knows.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Bill Belichick picked up James Harrison. That's all I need to know whether or not Deebo had anything left in the tank. It's fucking laughable to me some would trust Tomlin's or Butler's or Porter's judgment over Belichick's.


That means nothing. The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers. They had zero to lose. How many flyers has Belichick taken on castoffs? The act means zero.

That being said, who said anyone trusted Tomlin/Butler over Belichick. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that the Steelers didn't want him and it might have zero to do with whether they thought he could play anymore? Did they dump LeGarrette Blount because they didn't think he could play? How about Santonio Holmes?

Agree or disagree, it isn't hard to come up with reasons why the Steelers decided to move on from him. Reasons other than playing ability.


Let's face it. The real complaint here is that the Steelers did not modify their defensive schemes to accommodate what the strength Harrison has left. My feeling in this is that Harrison simply could not drop into coverage the way they ask their LBs to. And so after he became a malcontent, they dumped his ass. Should Tomlin have modified the defense around Harrison's remaining abilities? I assume some on here are going to say yes. I'm not in a position to make that call.

So I agree that they likely knew James still had some juice in the bottle and dumped his ass anyway. Couldn't do well what they wanted their lbs to do in coverage.

Who knows.


Well stated.

But, it's way more fun to claim we're smarter than that idiot Tomlin because we knew James could still play.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:49 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
But, it's way more fun to claim we're smarter than that idiot Tomlin because we knew James could still play.
You forgot to include "dumbfuck" or "Shitstain" in your response.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Quote:
The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers.


I’m going to exclude Watt because he’s a rookie and in my opinion had a solid year. So he escapes criticism.

At the same time though, he wasn’t exactly someone who could absolutely be counted on come postseason due to his lack of experience and rookie wall etc.

And behind him we had:

Bud the Dud Dupree

Arthur Can’t Get Across the Moat

Anthony Chicken Lil Chickillo

I’d say we had nothing at edge rusher as well.

And call me crazy but I want my OLBs to rush the passer first and and be able to drop into coverage second.

That excuse is getting sooo tired.

Sure it’s good when they have that ability. But to act like you can’t sub a guy in knowing he’s going to rush and someone else is going to have to cover is nonsense.


Last edited by 955876 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:55 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers.


I’m going to exclude Watt because he’s a rookie and in my opinion had a solid year. So he escapes criticism.

At the same time though, he wasn’t exactly someone who could absolutely be counted on come postseason due to his lack of experience and rookie wall etc.

And behind him we had:

Bud the Dud Dupree

Arthur Can’t Get Across the Moat

Anthony Chicken Lil Chickillo

I’d say we had nothing at edge rusher as well.


Depends on how much you want the edge rushers to rush.

Tomlin may be looking at coverage ability and be satisfied with his group.

Not endorsing, just giving a possible explanation.

WE are complaining that our OLBs are not getting to the QB bc WE want the defense to be a certain something. Maybe a Tomlin wanted something else that puts a greater premium on coverage than rushing. And JH maybe just could not do what Tonlin wants his LBs to do.

NOT ENDORSING THIS.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:03 pm 
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I edited to address that


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers.


I’m going to exclude Watt because he’s a rookie and in my opinion had a solid year. So he escapes criticism.

At the same time though, he wasn’t exactly someone who could absolutely be counted on come postseason due to his lack of experience and rookie wall etc.

And behind him we had:

Bud the Dud Dupree

Arthur Can’t Get Across the Moat

Anthony Chicken Lil Chickillo

I’d say we had nothing at edge rusher as well.


Depends on how much you want the edge rushers to rush.

Tomlin may be looking at coverage ability and be satisfied with his group.

Not endorsing, just giving a possible explanation.

WE are complaining that our OLBs are not getting to the QB bc WE want the defense to be a certain something. Maybe a Tomlin wanted something else that puts a greater premium on coverage than rushing. And JH maybe just could not do what Tonlin wants his LBs to do.

NOT ENDORSING THIS.

I think the Steelers are in the process of doing what posters here have wanted them to do for a long time: create a D that can stop the Patriots, one where they play man coverage and get pressure up the middle which is how you pressure Brady. So the pressure isn't coming as much from the OLB's. They are asking the OLB's to do different things than they historically have, things which I guess aren't strengths of Harrison's. Still not sure why they couldn't just put him on the field at times and just have him rush the passer anyway, like at the ends of games or something.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Steelers have always built their team to win their own division.

Back in the day, the 49ers built their team not for their division but to beat the Cowboys because they were the biggest obstacle to reaching the SB.

Both approaches have merit. And I agree with you that we’ve likely done things with beating the Pats in mind. Would be dumb not to

Problem for us is by the time we finally build a team to beat the Pats Brady will be gone, Ben will be on his last leg, and a new bully will roam the block punking us.

Gotta deliver next season...


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Bill Belichick picked up James Harrison. That's all I need to know whether or not Deebo had anything left in the tank. It's fucking laughable to me some would trust Tomlin's or Butler's or Porter's judgment over Belichick's.


That means nothing. The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers. They had zero to lose. How many flyers has Belichick taken on castoffs? The act means zero.

That being said, who said anyone trusted Tomlin/Butler over Belichick. Why is it so difficult for some to understand that the Steelers didn't want him and it might have zero to do with whether they thought he could play anymore? Did they dump LeGarrette Blount because they didn't think he could play? How about Santonio Holmes?

Agree or disagree, it isn't hard to come up with reasons why the Steelers decided to move on from him. Reasons other than playing ability.


...and for the umpteenth time, whether he could contribute to the Steelers or not....why giftwrap him and let him walk over to the New England Patriots on the eve of the playoffs. In-fuckin'-defensible!!

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:51 am 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
The Pats had nothing as far as edge rushers.


I’m going to exclude Watt because he’s a rookie and in my opinion had a solid year. So he escapes criticism.

At the same time though, he wasn’t exactly someone who could absolutely be counted on come postseason due to his lack of experience and rookie wall etc.

And behind him we had:

Bud the Dud Dupree

Arthur Can’t Get Across the Moat

Anthony Chicken Lil Chickillo

I’d say we had nothing at edge rusher as well.

And call me crazy but I want my OLBs to rush the passer first and and be able to drop into coverage second.

That excuse is getting sooo tired.

Sure it’s good when they have that ability. But to act like you can’t sub a guy in knowing he’s going to rush and someone else is going to have to cover is nonsense.

Bud and Watt had nearly the exact same season in terms of productivity. I would rather have them pass rushing more (and better), too... but the fact that they are good at an all-around game is a strength that coaches are exploiting.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:40 am 
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Measuring a 5th year players productivity to a rookie?? hmmm...my eyes tell me Watt outplayed Bud the Dud quite significantly. I'm excited about Watts future although being molded by Tomlin/Porter/Butler does concern me given their overall track record.

Can you imagine the controversy if Bud the Duds 5th year option isnt picked up??? I dont think even Tomlin would be dumb enough to not pick that option up now, is he??

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:39 am 
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They will almost certainly pick up the option or sign a new deal. I would, too.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:42 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
They will almost certainly pick up the option or sign a new deal. I would, too.



Well ya optics aside whats the alternative?...he probably deserves the extension all things considered (barely) but they really have no choice either

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:20 pm 
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I’d be happy if the Dupree that put the hit on Miami’s QB in the playoffs couple years ago showed back up.

I think he lefts his balls on the field that day because since then he’s been playing like a huge pussy.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:23 am 
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Gonzo wrote:
Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal

Based on what? He's been pretty good at what they've asked him to do. He's far, far superior to Jarvis and, IIRC< thy picked up Jarvis's 5th year.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:34 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal

Based on what? He's been pretty good at what they've asked him to do. He's far, far superior to Jarvis and, IIRC< thy picked up Jarvis's 5th year.

They did not pick up his option.

With respect to Dupree, maybe they ask him to drop back in coverage more because of what he can't do - get to the QB by beatng an OT. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.

B2B, you seem to be an advocate for Dupree, which is fine. But do you at least acknowledge his inconsistency to play the run? His lack of anything resembling a pass rush move? I just don't see how you can justify paying him almost 10M in 2019.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal

Based on what? He's been pretty good at what they've asked him to do. He's far, far superior to Jarvis and, IIRC< thy picked up Jarvis's 5th year.


C'mon B2B, does Dupree make plays like he should be at this point in his career?

4 full years and has he even improved?


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:49 am 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal

Based on what? He's been pretty good at what they've asked him to do. He's far, far superior to Jarvis and, IIRC< thy picked up Jarvis's 5th year.

They did not pick up his option.

With respect to Dupree, maybe they ask him to drop back in coverage more because of what he can't do - get to the QB by beatng an OT. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.


B2B, you seem to be an advocate for Dupree, which is fine. But do you at least acknowledge his inconsistency to play the run? His lack of anything resembling a pass rush move? I just don't see how you can justify paying him almost 10M in 2019.


Yup. Set aside elite. His pass rash is meh. But for the sake of argument, grant B2B that THEY are looking at Dupree as a premier cover OLB. WE may want him to be a rushing stud, but that is irrelevant. Is he at least very good in coverage, assuming (again, for the sake of argument) that's what they are most concerned with? (Most concerned does not mean unconcerned with pass rush, just thinking about Tomlin's comments about how the OLB role evolved.)

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:57 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
Measuring a 5th year players productivity to a rookie?? hmmm...my eyes tell me Watt outplayed Bud the Dud quite significantly. I'm excited about Watts future although being molded by Tomlin/Porter/Butler does concern me given their overall track record.

Can you imagine the controversy if Bud the Duds 5th year option isnt picked up??? I dont think even Tomlin would be dumb enough to not pick that option up now, is he??

I agree, but its a pretty damn sad state. I am guessing we over pay too.


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:06 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Dupree doesn't deserve a new deal

Based on what? He's been pretty good at what they've asked him to do. He's far, far superior to Jarvis and, IIRC< thy picked up Jarvis's 5th year.

They did not pick up his option.

With respect to Dupree, maybe they ask him to drop back in coverage more because of what he can't do - get to the QB by beatng an OT. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.

B2B, you seem to be an advocate for Dupree, which is fine. But do you at least acknowledge his inconsistency to play the run? His lack of anything resembling a pass rush move? I just don't see how you can justify paying him almost 10M in 2019.

I think Dupree had the most TFL vs the run on the team this year.

Inconsistent? Yes. What they ask him to do... I have no idea. I know he dropped back a lot and I know he did beat OTs on occasion. I think they intentionally had him try to push the QB up into Heyward/Tuitt/Hargrave, which seemed to work. That's where a lot of their sacks came from. When he did run stunts, he did beat blockers and generate pressure.

I'm not an advocate, I'm just loathe to jump on the dogpile about anyone. I think it's reactionary and emotional-- not logical.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:08 pm 
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I think it's more likely they sign Dupree to a longer deal.

To reiterate:

FS
Coverage ILB
Burns
Regression of Hargrave
Tuitt health

All much, much more serious issues than Bud Dupree.

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:48 pm 
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If they have bigger problems - which is a sad state
Or it's political
Or he is OK at some stuff doesn't mean he deserves a new contract
And doesn't mean he isn't a disappointment from expectations
His performance in the playoff game was very bad and IMO very soft


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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Quote:
Harrison Wants To Play Another Year Or Two http://nfltraderumors.co/patriots-olb-j ... -year-two/

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 Post subject: Re: James "THE KING" Harrison
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
If they have bigger problems - which is a sad state
Or it's political
Or he is OK at some stuff doesn't mean he deserves a new contract
And doesn't mean he isn't a disappointment from expectations
His performance in the playoff game was very bad and IMO very soft


Entire defense seemingly wanted to see who could play like the bigger bitch that day.


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