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 Post subject: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:41 am 
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I keep seeing this argument laid out for not firign Mike Tomlin. The more I see it, the more I realize how fucking stupid it is.

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One of the other most important factors in keeping Tomlin is Ben Roethlisberger. It’s not the wisest choice to start all over when Roethlisberger is nearing retirement.


Roethlisberger is a 15-year veteran. He would be BETTER able to handle change than a younger QB because of his experience, and contrary to popular belief, there's really only a few number of ways to run an offense. "Starting over" would result in an offense likely not radically different from what they run today. It's not like there'd be some radical new alteration in timing, route trees, etc.

And keeping things "more of the same because you shouldn't start over if he's so close to retirement" is the equivalent of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Denver changed coaches in 1995, at the tail end of John Elway's career. They changed because they realized the current staff's philosophy wasn't going to get the team over the hump.

Two seasons later, the Broncos won their first of back-to-back championships to end Elway's career.

I think the reason people make this argument is because they believe all the Steelers need are a few tweaks and they'll be right there ready to take the next step.

But they DON'T just need "a few tweaks"...they need a whole new philosophy.

Tomlin's philosophy sucks.

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Last edited by Jeemie on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:44 am 
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Broncos dumped John Fox after a Divisional round upset loss to the Colts. Won the super bowl the next year with Kubiak. WAYYY too risky of a move for the Steelers ownership.

When Ben is gone and retired and the steelers ar winning 6-9 games/year regularly, old EMR will be wishing he took a chance back in '17-18

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Last edited by R S on Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:45 am 
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At this point, every argument for not firing Tomlin is dumb.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:49 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
I keep seeing this argument laid out for not firign Mike Tomlin. The more I see it, the more I realize how fucking stupid it is.

Quote:
One of the other most important factors in keeping Tomlin is Ben Roethlisberger. It’s not the wisest choice to start all over when Roethlisberger is nearing retirement.


Roethlisberger is a 15-year veteran. He would be BETTER able to handle change than a younger QB because of his experience, and contrary to popular belief

And keeping things "more of the same because you shouldn't start over if he's so close to retirement" is the equivalent of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Denver changed coaches in 1995, at the tail end of John Elway's career. They changed because they realized the current staff's philosophy wasn't going to get the team over the hump.

Two seasons later, the Broncos won their first of back-to-back championships to end Elway's career.

I think the reason people make this argument is because they believe all the Steelers need are a few tweaks and they'll be right there ready to take the next step.

But they DON'T just need "a few tweaks"...they need a whole new philosophy.

Tomlin's philosophy sucks.


I agree with everything you wrote.

I agree it is an asinine argument.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:50 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
I keep seeing this argument laid out for not firign Mike Tomlin. The more I see it, the more I realize how fucking stupid it is.

Quote:
One of the other most important factors in keeping Tomlin is Ben Roethlisberger. It’s not the wisest choice to start all over when Roethlisberger is nearing retirement.


Roethlisberger is a 15-year veteran. He would be BETTER able to handle change than a younger QB because of his experience, and contrary to popular belief

And keeping things "more of the same because you shouldn't start over if he's so close to retirement" is the equivalent of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Denver changed coaches in 1995, at the tail end of John Elway's career. They changed because they realized the current staff's philosophy wasn't going to get the team over the hump.

Two seasons later, the Broncos won their first of back-to-back championships to end Elway's career.

I think the reason people make this argument is because they believe all the Steelers need are a few tweaks and they'll be right there ready to take the next step.

But they DON'T just need "a few tweaks"...they need a whole new philosophy.

Tomlin's philosophy sucks
.




Agreed


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Didn't the Bucs dump Dungy then they IMMEDIATELY won it all with Gruden?

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
I keep seeing this argument laid out for not firign Mike Tomlin. The more I see it, the more I realize how fucking stupid it is.

Quote:
One of the other most important factors in keeping Tomlin is Ben Roethlisberger. It’s not the wisest choice to start all over when Roethlisberger is nearing retirement.


Roethlisberger is a 15-year veteran. He would be BETTER able to handle change than a younger QB because of his experience, and contrary to popular belief, there's really only a few number of ways to run an offense. "Starting over" would result in an offense likely not radically different from what they run today. It's not like there'd be some radical new alteration in timing, route trees, etc.

And keeping things "more of the same because you shouldn't start over if he's so close to retirement" is the equivalent of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

Denver changed coaches in 1995, at the tail end of John Elway's career. They changed because they realized the current staff's philosophy wasn't going to get the team over the hump.

Two seasons later, the Broncos won their first of back-to-back championships to end Elway's career.

I think the reason people make this argument is because they believe all the Steelers need are a few tweaks and they'll be right there ready to take the next step.

But they DON'T just need "a few tweaks"...they need a whole new philosophy.

Tomlin's philosophy sucks.


This argument reeks of phoniness and is really retarded. A proper discipline coach who has all angles covered would be most beneficial for Ben to get another Super Bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 pm 
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KC wrote:
Didn't the Bucs dump Dungy then they IMMEDIATELY won it all with Gruden?


Yes but I was deliberately choosing an example of a team with a veteran in the twilight of his career.

And I suspect Gruden won because Callahan foolishly installed a game plan with all Gruden's terminology in it. In fact, that Super Bowl is a favorite of Beth's go to conspiracy guy, Brian Tuohy because Callahan changed the game plan midweek to feature more Gannon passing, and they had to use all the old Gruden language because they had so little time to practice.

The conspiracy folks think Callahan was ordered to throw the game.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:46 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:09 pm 
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Sid Crosby and Geno Malkin have been through 5 coaches and have won 3 Cups

I think Ben can adapt just fine


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:01 pm 
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What about who Ben wants for his head coach for his last 2 Years? Does that count for anything. Maybe Ben understands the inner workings of the team pretty well.

People think it's a Given that firing Tomlin and replacing him with Munchak or an new coach from outside, means the Steelers take our Amazing talent and March right to the Super Bowl because that's what happened when the Bucs hired Gruden.

What's far more likely is that we go 9-7 or 8-8 because our team has holes, and all the problems were not rooted in Tomlin. And a new coach does not bring miracles but just a mixed bag. Then it's wait 2-3 more years until the new coach establishes himself and gets his guys and his players, and maybe we make the playoffs, but then Ben is gone.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
What about who Ben wants for his head coach for his last 2 Years? Does that count for anything. Maybe Ben understands the inner workings of the team pretty well.

People think it's a Given that firing Tomlin and replacing him with Munchak or an new coach from outside, means the Steelers take our Amazing talent and March right to the Super Bowl because that's what happened when the Bucs hired Gruden.

What's far more likely is that we go 9-7 or 8-8 because our team has holes, and all the problems were not rooted in Tomlin. And a new coach does not bring miracles but just a mixed bag. Then it's wait 2-3 more years until the new coach establishes himself and gets his guys and his players, and maybe we make the playoffs, but then Ben is gone.


I wasn't making an argument FOR firing Tomlin.

I was deconstructing the argument that the Steelers shouldn't even consider it because Ben is close to retirement, and pointing out a case where it worked.

There is only one thing you need to consider. if your goal is a championship, do you think your current head coach has instilled a philosophy and strategy to get you there.

If yes, you keep him. If not, you let him go.

The quarterback's age has very little to do with that.

The "Ben is at the end of his career" argument for retaining Mike Tomlin is an empty one.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Why not just break the bank and offer Belichick $30,000,000 per year for 5 years. Problem solved.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:20 pm 
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If I had to take a gamble, I’d bet on two years with a disciplinarian such as Coughlin over two more years of a numb skull that also allows the inmates to run the asylum.

At the least we know Coghlin has presided over game plans that actually succeed in the postseason.

Think back to Tomlin’s successes over his career. In SB 43, their plan lost them the game despite the benefit of a historic play on the part of JH. 14 point swing right there.

And even with that, we still had the largest 4th quarter defensive collapse in history.

#7 & #10 gave this dunce his career by saving his has with a historic drive that ended with an even more historic catch. Perception is much different for a SB winning coach than non-winner. Imagine if Ben & Holmes don’t come through? How is the wordsmiff perceived then?

He’s all sizzle & no substance. He’s a fraud. Several here continue to drink his tainted Kool-Aid though. But but but.

Save it. His career is going to be defined by a decade of missed opportunities paired with a whole bunch of luck in he early part of his career.


Last edited by 955876 on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Stallworth16 wrote:
What about who Ben wants for his head coach for his last 2 Years? Does that count for anything. Maybe Ben understands the inner workings of the team pretty well.

People think it's a Given that firing Tomlin and replacing him with Munchak or an new coach from outside, means the Steelers take our Amazing talent and March right to the Super Bowl because that's what happened when the Bucs hired Gruden.

What's far more likely is that we go 9-7 or 8-8 because our team has holes, and all the problems were not rooted in Tomlin. And a new coach does not bring miracles but just a mixed bag. Then it's wait 2-3 more years until the new coach establishes himself and gets his guys and his players, and maybe we make the playoffs, but then Ben is gone.


I wasn't making an argument FOR firing Tomlin.

I was deconstructing the argument that the Steelers shouldn't even consider it because Ben is close to retirement, and pointing out a case where it worked.

There is only one thing you need to consider. if your goal is a championship, do you think your current head coach has instilled a philosophy and strategy to get you there.

If yes, you keep him. If not, you let him go.

The quarterback's age has very little to do with that.

The "Ben is at the end of his career" argument for retaining Mike Tomlin is an empty one.


You are leaving out that Ben wants to keep Tomlin and maybe Ben knows more than your average Steelerfury poster. Coaches like Tomlin sometimes do get over the hump. I believe Tomlin gives us a better chance at winning a Championship than a new coach. Tomlin has shown willingness to evolve slowly. We outplayed the Patriots in our only meeting this year, and the loss of Shazier hurt our defense a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:21 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Why not just break the bank and offer Belichick $30,000,000 per year for 5 years. Problem solved.

would never work.
The Cheatriots Machine is way, way bigger than one Bill Belichick...

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:26 pm 
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955876 wrote:
If I had to take a gamble, I’d bet on two years with a disciplinarian such as Coughlin over two more years of a numb skull that also allows the inmates to run the asylum.

At the least we know Coghlin has presided over game plans that actually succeed in the postseason.

Think back to Tomlin’s successes over his career. Their plan lost them the game despite the benefit of a historic play on the part of JH. 14 point swing right there.

And even with that, we still had the largest 4th quarter defensive collapse in history.

#7 & #10 gave this dunce his career. Perception is much different for a SB winning coach.

He’s all sizzle & no substance. He’s a fraud. Several here continue to drink his tainted Kool-Aid.

Others have finally seen what several had already come to realize.


Dwindling all the time. I count B2B, Polt, Stallworth and Lakecrest. STD (Chef) would be hanging off Tomlin's nutsack if he were still here. I think that's it.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:45 pm 
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You have to look at another huge problem...who are you going to replace him with? There's so many unknowns. I have to believe the Rooney's will talk to Tomlin about any changes that want to see in 2018. I suspect they keep those things behind closed doors.

One more year. If the Steelers choke (assuming they get there) in the playoffs, I believe you'll see both Ben retire and Tomlin/Steelers part ways.

No way a 13-3 Coach gets walking papers.

My frustration with what happened this year is huge, but I know the reality of trying to replace a HC.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:52 pm 
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VASteelerGuy wrote:
who are you going to replace him with?

:roll:
just
fucking
stop!

We've been over this a thousand times.

Mike Munchak, at least in the interim, would have been a solid choice for months now...
...and until he becomes Tomlin's next scapegoat, he just becomes the more logical choice as time goes on.

As it is, a ficus tree would be an improvement...

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Stallworth16 wrote:
What about who Ben wants for his head coach for his last 2 Years? Does that count for anything. Maybe Ben understands the inner workings of the team pretty well.

People think it's a Given that firing Tomlin and replacing him with Munchak or an new coach from outside, means the Steelers take our Amazing talent and March right to the Super Bowl because that's what happened when the Bucs hired Gruden.

What's far more likely is that we go 9-7 or 8-8 because our team has holes, and all the problems were not rooted in Tomlin. And a new coach does not bring miracles but just a mixed bag. Then it's wait 2-3 more years until the new coach establishes himself and gets his guys and his players, and maybe we make the playoffs, but then Ben is gone.


We don't think that's a given.

We DO though, think it's a given that the Steelers will NOT win a Super Bowl with this douchebag remaining at the helm.

I also agree with the subsequent poster who posited that no way do the Steelers fire a 13-3 coach. That's correct, as Steelers have already proven that no way do they fire an 8-8 coach. Again...Tomlin's job is safer than the Pope's.


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Dwindling all the time. I count B2B, Polt, Stallworth and Lakecrest. STD (Chef) would be hanging off Tomlin's nutsack if he were still here. I think that's it.


You can count me in, I guess, though i'm moving more to the "show me" side of the fence.

By the way, if Tomlin's position opened up, with Roethlisberger, Bell and AB still on the roster, with that OL, a solid FO, conservative ownership, rest assured the most talented coaches would be murdering each other to get this job. It is *prime* fucking real estate. Even in rebuilding years we generally have enough talent to get 6-8 wins.

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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Tomlin already getting ready for life after football promoting his sons and L Bell’s rap careers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachTomlin/ ... 3596463105


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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:03 pm 
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SOCALSTEEL wrote:
Tomlin already getting ready for life after football promoting his sons and L Bell’s rap careers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachTomlin/ ... 3596463105



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 Post subject: Re: The dumb argument for not firing Mike Tomlin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:23 pm 
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SOCALSTEEL wrote:
Tomlin already getting ready for life after football promoting his sons and L Bell’s rap careers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachTomlin/ ... 3596463105




maybe this is the reason L Bell missed the walkthrough and showed up right at game time on sunday, he was helpin Mikey Jr out with his mixtape. Not sure what Coach Olsavskys excuse was. :roll:


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