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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'd like to bring him back, mostly because I don't expect to Colbert and Co. to get nearly as impactful defensive players with that money as many are hoping for.

That said, if this ends up being a 5 year, $12M/per deal that isn't easy to get out of after year 2, that's going to suck even worse.


I believe last year's offer had $30 million of the $60 million guaranteed in the first 2 years of the deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Charles Demarr wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'd like to bring him back, mostly because I don't expect to Colbert and Co. to get nearly as impactful defensive players with that money as many are hoping for.

That said, if this ends up being a 5 year, $12M/per deal that isn't easy to get out of after year 2, that's going to suck even worse.


I believe last year's offer had $30 million of the $60 million guaranteed in the first 2 years of the deal.


I'm more concerned with the cap hit in the years after year 2. With the workload he gets every season, I don't expect him to have much of a shelf life going forward and think he could fall off a cliff in any given season. I'm willing to risk it for a season or two, but after that, I think it gets to be too much. And I also think Ben will retire or be on a sharp decline after 2 more seasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Good news... It seems the Rooneys are a little looser with their funds now that they don't have to account for Dan's Irish whiskey consumption.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Remember the hit to the knee, I believe in the Cincy game this year.
Was a run to the right, as Bell approached the sideline, lowered his shoulder.......but the DB went lower.
And it looked like it could have been a devastating blow to the knee.
He hobbled off the field.
Sat on the trainers table as team doctor went thru all the feel tests.

That hit right there should make him want to think long term and hopefully PS friendly, as opposed to playing year to year,
Even if the Y2Y contract is twice the number of the next guy at the position.

4 year $45 million with $25 guaranteed is my guess
Or at least should be as high as they go.

And when you consider last years offer may have had $30 million guaranteed.
Well he just made $14 of that $30 in 2017.
And he is a year older and 550 touches heavier.

I think these are the top 5 RB contracts as a basis.

Freeman
5 years $41 million - ($ 22 guaranteed )

McCoy
5 years $40 ( $18 )

Doug Martin
5 years, 35.75 ( $15 )

Ivory
5 years, $32 ( $10 )

Fournette
4 years, $27 ( $27 :shock: )

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Charles Demarr wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'd like to bring him back, mostly because I don't expect to Colbert and Co. to get nearly as impactful defensive players with that money as many are hoping for.

That said, if this ends up being a 5 year, $12M/per deal that isn't easy to get out of after year 2, that's going to suck even worse.


I believe last year's offer had $30 million of the $60 million guaranteed in the first 2 years of the deal.


I'm more concerned with the cap hit in the years after year 2. With the workload he gets every season, I don't expect him to have much of a shelf life going forward and think he could fall off a cliff in any given season. I'm willing to risk it for a season or two, but after that, I think it gets to be too much. And I also think Ben will retire or be on a sharp decline after 2 more seasons.


Not me. I have major doubts Ben will be around in 3 years. Worry about that later.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:05 pm 
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And I do not see any RB that is a free agent that will set a higher bar, command even $9 - $10 a year.

Or even $4-5 million per year

Sproles
Lacy
Vereen
Gore
Burkhead
Crowell
Jamaal Charles
D amian Williams
T. West
Alfred Morris
Dunbar
Dion Lewis
Blount
Peerman
Darkwa
Jeremy Hill
Hyde
Ellington
Spiller

Soft FA running back market along with the injury scare.........
The success of rookie RB's
Could have Bell coming back to earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
And I do not see any RB that is a free agent that will set a higher bar, command even $9 - $10 a year.

Or even $4-5 million per year

Sproles
Lacy
Vereen
Gore
Burkhead
Crowell
Jamaal Charles
D amian Williams
T. West
Alfred Morris
Dunbar
Dion Lewis
Blount
Peerman
Darkwa
Jeremy Hill
Hyde
Ellington
Spiller

Soft FA running back market along with the injury scare.........
The success of rookie RB's
Could have Bell coming back to earth.



Will Sproles make it back from his injury at 34/35.
Be nice to steel Burkhead from Pats.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:01 pm 
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THE amount of doom and gloom here on it has been expected

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... last-year/

I expect to see him back warts and all

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:57 pm 
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I’m all for paying crazy money to a model team player, a guy who always puts the team before him....who doesn’t create waves w social media and is never a distraction whose longest run this year was 27 yards.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
I'd like to bring him back, mostly because I don't expect to Colbert and Co. to get nearly as impactful defensive players with that money as many are hoping for.

That said, if this ends up being a 5 year, $12M/per deal that isn't easy to get out of after year 2, that's going to suck even worse.


Who cares, when Ben leaves, it's guaranteed SUCK, next man up is a fairy tale at the QB position, and you don't win with running the ball and defense. If Foles wins it this year, it's not proof that a sucky QB can win, he was carried there by a franchise, #1 pick QB over the first 15 weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Forget about cap hits 2 years from now! Just load up while Ben is still standing, even if you have to cut 20 guys the year after he retires, because it won't matter anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:10 pm 
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It's hard to imagine PIT offering less than their last deal (right or wrong, Bell would be insulted).

Since the first year in both scenarios was fairly equivalent, I think they're offering 4/$48M. For me, I'd be more in the neighorhood of 4/$40M with $20M guaranteed, but that's not happening.

I say this every time....Other teams give small SB and then guarantee the first 2, sometimes part of the 3rd, year to get the deal done. That is 100% the way to do these contracts, with little dead money after the first 2 years when you might possibly think about a cut or trade. PIT doesn't do it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:15 pm 
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It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.

I can’t see him lowering his expected value or being “happy” the Steelers lowered their number. So, I’m guessing the Steelers upped theirs. I suppose we’ll just wait and see.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:28 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.

I can’t see him lowering his expected value or being “happy” the Steelers lowered their number. So, I’m guessing the Steelers upped theirs. I suppose we’ll just wait and see.

It makes me nervous that Butler is still heading up this defense


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:39 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Sign him, then trade him....One puff away....


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:50 pm 
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steelheels wrote:
KC wrote:
Stosh-67 wrote:
If he says they are closer, I hope it means he has come to his senses on his talk of $15-$17 million per year.

And realizes his $14 last year was almost twice as the next few highest paid backs.


Right with ya.

He has to understand that he isn't going to get anywhere near what he was hoping for (or offered) last year.


Like I said on another MB, he won't get what he thinks is the MAX, but will get a good bit more than last year's proposal.
I'm guessing closer to 14mil per year.


I thought we offered him 2 years for 30 in the offseason and he shot it down quickly?


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:17 pm 
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I'm guessing you will see in the neighborhood of 13-14mil average annual with more guaranteed money up front.
Bell isn't stupid...he knows a RB shelf-life may be short. He wants as much as he can get guaranteed.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:32 pm 
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I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
I’m all for paying crazy money to a model team player, a guy who always puts the team before him....who doesn’t create waves w social media and is never a distraction whose longest run this year was 27 yards.

First thing that I thought too... hopefully it's not stupid ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:47 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:00 pm 
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TB wrote:
Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


What he did with those 160 catches is underwhelming. There are a good number of 3rd down backs/specialists in the league who would catch those balls in our offense and do at least as much. Guys who probably don't make more than $2-$3M a year.

So if we say Bell is one of the few every down backs in the league, you can maybe justify something in the $11-$12M range. But really you'd have to be elite in YPC (rushing AND receiving). He hasn't been.

He probably is more uniquely valuable to PIT than other teams (who presumably have other backs to share the load). My counter argument to all this is that with Ben and that OL, 2-3 decent backs can replace Bell's production AND efficiency for well less than $10M.

$10M per would be a "more than fair" offer....$12M is getting into wasteful territory. I'm with others - scared to hear what kind of money they might be throwing at the guy if he's "happy".

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Last edited by Kodiak on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:02 pm 
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955876 wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:

Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


Maybe they offered to invest/open a good grow operation and dispensary as part of his signing bonus.


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