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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Forget about cap hits 2 years from now! Just load up while Ben is still standing, even if you have to cut 20 guys the year after he retires, because it won't matter anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:10 pm 
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It's hard to imagine PIT offering less than their last deal (right or wrong, Bell would be insulted).

Since the first year in both scenarios was fairly equivalent, I think they're offering 4/$48M. For me, I'd be more in the neighorhood of 4/$40M with $20M guaranteed, but that's not happening.

I say this every time....Other teams give small SB and then guarantee the first 2, sometimes part of the 3rd, year to get the deal done. That is 100% the way to do these contracts, with little dead money after the first 2 years when you might possibly think about a cut or trade. PIT doesn't do it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:15 pm 
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It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.

I can’t see him lowering his expected value or being “happy” the Steelers lowered their number. So, I’m guessing the Steelers upped theirs. I suppose we’ll just wait and see.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:28 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.

I can’t see him lowering his expected value or being “happy” the Steelers lowered their number. So, I’m guessing the Steelers upped theirs. I suppose we’ll just wait and see.

It makes me nervous that Butler is still heading up this defense


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:39 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Sign him, then trade him....One puff away....


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:50 pm 
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steelheels wrote:
KC wrote:
Stosh-67 wrote:
If he says they are closer, I hope it means he has come to his senses on his talk of $15-$17 million per year.

And realizes his $14 last year was almost twice as the next few highest paid backs.


Right with ya.

He has to understand that he isn't going to get anywhere near what he was hoping for (or offered) last year.


Like I said on another MB, he won't get what he thinks is the MAX, but will get a good bit more than last year's proposal.
I'm guessing closer to 14mil per year.


I thought we offered him 2 years for 30 in the offseason and he shot it down quickly?


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:17 pm 
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I'm guessing you will see in the neighborhood of 13-14mil average annual with more guaranteed money up front.
Bell isn't stupid...he knows a RB shelf-life may be short. He wants as much as he can get guaranteed.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:32 pm 
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I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
I’m all for paying crazy money to a model team player, a guy who always puts the team before him....who doesn’t create waves w social media and is never a distraction whose longest run this year was 27 yards.

First thing that I thought too... hopefully it's not stupid ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:47 pm 
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bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:00 pm 
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TB wrote:
Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


What he did with those 160 catches is underwhelming. There are a good number of 3rd down backs/specialists in the league who would catch those balls in our offense and do at least as much. Guys who probably don't make more than $2-$3M a year.

So if we say Bell is one of the few every down backs in the league, you can maybe justify something in the $11-$12M range. But really you'd have to be elite in YPC (rushing AND receiving). He hasn't been.

He probably is more uniquely valuable to PIT than other teams (who presumably have other backs to share the load). My counter argument to all this is that with Ben and that OL, 2-3 decent backs can replace Bell's production AND efficiency for well less than $10M.

$10M per would be a "more than fair" offer....$12M is getting into wasteful territory. I'm with others - scared to hear what kind of money they might be throwing at the guy if he's "happy".

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Last edited by Kodiak on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:02 pm 
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955876 wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:

Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


Maybe they offered to invest/open a good grow operation and dispensary as part of his signing bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Really don't understand how $10 million is "more than fair" but $12 million is "getting into wasteful territory."

You're literally talking about the difference in 1.12% percent of our cap space next year. For a guy who carried the ball over 300 times, caught 85 passes, and a guy I would argue has been the most consistently impactful player in the playoffs for us since Lamarr Woodley. Considering what he did last year for us in Kansas City, and how played against Jax this year? You'd risk losing all that just for that minor of a difference? In Ben's last years?

To me, that seems far more riskier.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 pm 
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TB wrote:
Really don't understand how $10 million is "more than fair" but $12 million is "getting into wasteful territory."

You're literally talking about the difference in 1.12% percent of our cap space next year. For a guy who carried the ball over 300 times, caught 85 passes, and a guy I would argue has been the most consistently impactful player in the playoffs for us since Lamarr Woodley. Considering what he did last year for us in Kansas City, and how played against Jax this year? You'd risk losing all that just for that minor of a difference? In Ben's last years?

To me, that seems far more riskier.


A few million here, a few million there....it all adds up and that's how you end-up with no money to improve your team in FA. "Getting into wasteful territory"....and a few more million is getting "deep" into wasteful territory.

$13-14M can you get you TWO mid-tier defensive guys that can make a huge difference. There's risk, but you can also get rookie RB's who produce in R2/R3 in the draft, and Conner doesn't suck.

And you're ignoring the very real risk Bell is not there for the final game next year. You have to take that into consideration. You have to take into consideration he clearly appeared to have lost a step this year. The value/ROI play, the best play, is not always status quo just pay whatever the guy wants because you feel your back is against the wall.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:18 pm 
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This is going to get very ugly and doubt he plays for the black and gold beyond 2018


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:12 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
This is going to get very ugly and doubt he plays for the black and gold beyond 2018


???

How is Bell saying he's happy with the progress "getting ugly"?

I have no idea what he's thinking. I can't imagine, given the way he was talking just a few days before the Divisional game, that he's suddenly become reasonable and fair in his demands. I'm not sure Colbert has it in him to "play" Bell.


Truly outside-the-box thinking would be signing Bell to a long-term, albeit overly expensive deal and then trading him. Effectively you're trading some cap with Bell - in a market that might not have the high-priced defensive FA's you like - to move up in the draft plus an extra R1 or R2 pick.

In other words, eat like $15M of Bell's deal and trade him to OAK for pick #9 and pick # 41. Bundle #28 and #41 to move up again -
two impact defensive guys that just aren't there in FA, or when PIT is otherwise drafting.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:40 am 
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TB wrote:
bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


His receptions are all of the "Roger Craig" quality -- short dump off / check down passes, that go for 5-7 yards.

He's not a game breaker, but he's very efficient and very good like Roger Craig was.

Good runner, reliable dump off receiver, and solid blocker.

Most definitely not worth $15M/ year


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:40 am 
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In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:08 am 
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^

Tomlin is a goddamn idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:46 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


Have you ever thought both Bell and Bryant should maybe have been on the field at the same time?

Who’s fault is it that they weren’t?

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:30 am 
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KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


Have you ever thought both Bell and Bryant should maybe have been on the field at the same time?

Who’s fault is it that they weren’t?


Herm's????

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 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:24 am 
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It is INSANITY for a team to be considering Bell that much money...especially a team whose safety and ILB situation is DIRE. That money immediately gets you a very good ILB and safety to plug into our defense.

I mean....even if you eliminated the pot and suspension risk, the knee injuries, the social media garbage, the showing up late...it's still a stupid as fuck move to sign him for big money. This is a player who has slowed down significantly...and he's not going to get any faster as he ages. His YPC fell dramatically this year to 4.0. He completely lacks a second gear. He's also become very predictable. Teams know how to adjust to his style now and they don't worry anymore about him threatening the outside (because of his slower speed).

Jeemie is right. Belichick absolutely LOVED when Tomlin turtled in the 3Q this year and pounded Bell into his Dline. It was a gift.

Sign or draft a decent RB and for the love of God, use that money on defense. You all know deep down that is the right thing to do...even the most staunch Bell defenders.


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