It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:22 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 4166
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.


Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:45 pm
Posts: 13515
BarryFoster wrote:
I’m all for paying crazy money to a model team player, a guy who always puts the team before him....who doesn’t create waves w social media and is never a distraction whose longest run this year was 27 yards.

First thing that I thought too... hopefully it's not stupid ridiculous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:13 pm
Posts: 3982
bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.

_________________
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
TB wrote:
Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


What he did with those 160 catches is underwhelming. There are a good number of 3rd down backs/specialists in the league who would catch those balls in our offense and do at least as much. Guys who probably don't make more than $2-$3M a year.

So if we say Bell is one of the few every down backs in the league, you can maybe justify something in the $11-$12M range. But really you'd have to be elite in YPC (rushing AND receiving). He hasn't been.

He probably is more uniquely valuable to PIT than other teams (who presumably have other backs to share the load). My counter argument to all this is that with Ben and that OL, 2-3 decent backs can replace Bell's production AND efficiency for well less than $10M.

$10M per would be a "more than fair" offer....$12M is getting into wasteful territory. I'm with others - scared to hear what kind of money they might be throwing at the guy if he's "happy".

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Last edited by Kodiak on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1040
955876 wrote:
randomsteelerfan wrote:
Kodiak wrote:

Maybe they got creative and started with $14.4M for the tag this year. Guarantee a second year at $10M, and then a non-guaranteed third year at $18M. He gets bragging rights and to save face, but he's never seeing that 3rd year. PIT ends up with basically 3 years of their original offer and no dead money.

That's what SHOULD happen. But Colbert is a dinosaur when it comes to contract structures.


Maybe. It’ll be nteresting to see what exactly is making Bell happy.


A good sativa?


Maybe they offered to invest/open a good grow operation and dispensary as part of his signing bonus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:13 pm
Posts: 3982
Really don't understand how $10 million is "more than fair" but $12 million is "getting into wasteful territory."

You're literally talking about the difference in 1.12% percent of our cap space next year. For a guy who carried the ball over 300 times, caught 85 passes, and a guy I would argue has been the most consistently impactful player in the playoffs for us since Lamarr Woodley. Considering what he did last year for us in Kansas City, and how played against Jax this year? You'd risk losing all that just for that minor of a difference? In Ben's last years?

To me, that seems far more riskier.

_________________
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Dad showed up after work and according to her the entire hospital hears my dad yell you are not naming our son Hoss.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
TB wrote:
Really don't understand how $10 million is "more than fair" but $12 million is "getting into wasteful territory."

You're literally talking about the difference in 1.12% percent of our cap space next year. For a guy who carried the ball over 300 times, caught 85 passes, and a guy I would argue has been the most consistently impactful player in the playoffs for us since Lamarr Woodley. Considering what he did last year for us in Kansas City, and how played against Jax this year? You'd risk losing all that just for that minor of a difference? In Ben's last years?

To me, that seems far more riskier.


A few million here, a few million there....it all adds up and that's how you end-up with no money to improve your team in FA. "Getting into wasteful territory"....and a few more million is getting "deep" into wasteful territory.

$13-14M can you get you TWO mid-tier defensive guys that can make a huge difference. There's risk, but you can also get rookie RB's who produce in R2/R3 in the draft, and Conner doesn't suck.

And you're ignoring the very real risk Bell is not there for the final game next year. You have to take that into consideration. You have to take into consideration he clearly appeared to have lost a step this year. The value/ROI play, the best play, is not always status quo just pay whatever the guy wants because you feel your back is against the wall.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:43 pm
Posts: 4146
This is going to get very ugly and doubt he plays for the black and gold beyond 2018


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11317
steelmann58 wrote:
This is going to get very ugly and doubt he plays for the black and gold beyond 2018


???

How is Bell saying he's happy with the progress "getting ugly"?

I have no idea what he's thinking. I can't imagine, given the way he was talking just a few days before the Divisional game, that he's suddenly become reasonable and fair in his demands. I'm not sure Colbert has it in him to "play" Bell.


Truly outside-the-box thinking would be signing Bell to a long-term, albeit overly expensive deal and then trading him. Effectively you're trading some cap with Bell - in a market that might not have the high-priced defensive FA's you like - to move up in the draft plus an extra R1 or R2 pick.

In other words, eat like $15M of Bell's deal and trade him to OAK for pick #9 and pick # 41. Bundle #28 and #41 to move up again -
two impact defensive guys that just aren't there in FA, or when PIT is otherwise drafting.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4371
TB wrote:
bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


His receptions are all of the "Roger Craig" quality -- short dump off / check down passes, that go for 5-7 yards.

He's not a game breaker, but he's very efficient and very good like Roger Craig was.

Good runner, reliable dump off receiver, and solid blocker.

Most definitely not worth $15M/ year


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23264
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:22 am
Posts: 8888
^

Tomlin is a goddamn idiot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 11319
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


Have you ever thought both Bell and Bryant should maybe have been on the field at the same time?

Who’s fault is it that they weren’t?

_________________
86n96 wrote:
Been checked to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:34 am
Posts: 5494
KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


Have you ever thought both Bell and Bryant should maybe have been on the field at the same time?

Who’s fault is it that they weren’t?


Herm's????

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:54 pm
Posts: 3974
It is INSANITY for a team to be considering Bell that much money...especially a team whose safety and ILB situation is DIRE. That money immediately gets you a very good ILB and safety to plug into our defense.

I mean....even if you eliminated the pot and suspension risk, the knee injuries, the social media garbage, the showing up late...it's still a stupid as fuck move to sign him for big money. This is a player who has slowed down significantly...and he's not going to get any faster as he ages. His YPC fell dramatically this year to 4.0. He completely lacks a second gear. He's also become very predictable. Teams know how to adjust to his style now and they don't worry anymore about him threatening the outside (because of his slower speed).

Jeemie is right. Belichick absolutely LOVED when Tomlin turtled in the 3Q this year and pounded Bell into his Dline. It was a gift.

Sign or draft a decent RB and for the love of God, use that money on defense. You all know deep down that is the right thing to do...even the most staunch Bell defenders.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 am
Posts: 903
franco32 wrote:
and they don't worry anymore about him threatening the outside (because of his slower speed).

Jeemie is right. Belichick absolutely LOVED when Tomlin turtled in the 3Q this year and pounded Bell into his Dline. It was a gift.


Some disconnect here. Bell ran well to the outside against the Pats on the few tosses he was given. I think BB loved it more when it was Conner/Toussaint that were "pounded into his Dline" in the early stages of the 4th quarter considering Bell rushed for 4.9 per carry against his Defense that day. But this is the direction many of you seem to prefer. Conner off injury/ridley if resigned and his historical fumbling isues /toussaint... maybe some unproven rookie draft pick that's going to hit is rookie wall when the team needs him most.

That won't have any impact on the passing game? Not much to honor. If BB "loved" Bell being pounded into the Dline, I'd imagine just about any coach will be happy letting the triumvirate of mediocrity beat them as opposed to Ben and the receiving corps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:20 am
Posts: 3765
randomsteelerfan wrote:
It makes me nervous that Bell is happy. Because, you know, his expectations are nuts.

I can’t see him lowering his expected value or being “happy” the Steelers lowered their number. So, I’m guessing the Steelers upped theirs. I suppose we’ll just wait and see.


Stuff like that doesn't make me nervous, I don't care what they decide to pay, in fact, I'd rather see OVER paying than see the Pittsburgh Pirates.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:20 am
Posts: 3765
steelmann58 wrote:
This is going to get very ugly and doubt he plays for the black and gold beyond 2018

Who cares? After Ben goes, I don't care who's on the team, they're going to suck for several years anyways, next man up is a fairy tale, especially at QB.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 am
Posts: 4248
TB wrote:
bam morris wrote:
I don't think any running back in todays pass happy nfl is worth that much..crazy to use that much cap for 1 running back..


Bell has caught 160 passes the last two years (27 games).

That's hair under 6 catches a game.

I'd hardly describe the guy as just a RB, which in part is why he was first team All Pro as a flex player and second team All Pro as a RB.


The 3 biggest liars on the planet (in no particular order)...

People
Circumstances
Numbers

What is the scoring impact of those numbers?

This offense is high powered when the football is going downfield into the hands of AB/JuJu/Bryant/McDonald.

This offense bogs down when the football is in the hands of Bell too often.

I made this argument before the season even started...

If I'm an opposing DC, I'm begging the Steelers to play Bell centered small ball. If I'm an opposing DC... what I don't want is the Steelers dynamic vertical passing game getting cranked up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:24 am
Posts: 3010
I'm just confused as to how a team with 3 pro bowl OL and a franchise tag back + a serious downfield threat can suck at running the ball.

_________________
#IDrinkandIKnowThings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:24 am
Posts: 3010
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


I think he was happy with the Villy holding call which completely changed the game

_________________
#IDrinkandIKnowThings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23264
Lifelongsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


I think he was happy with the Villy holding call which completely changed the game


The Pats stopped the Steelers on their other drives in the second half that were Bell-heavy...not only the drive with the holding call.

The only drive the Steelers scored on was when they got the short field on the INT.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm
Posts: 23264
KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


Have you ever thought both Bell and Bryant should maybe have been on the field at the same time?

Who’s fault is it that they weren’t?



Of course I thought that. I said so.

Yet you'd be happy paying $17 M to a good but not game changing RB.

You don't yet grasp that I'm not saying Bell is no good...only that he's not worth premium money.

_________________
“A set of several simple rules leads to complex, intelligent behavior. While a set of complex rules often leads to dumb and primitive behavior.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:24 am
Posts: 3010
Jeemie wrote:
Lifelongsteel wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In the Patriots’ game this year, in the second half, when Bell was getting most of the touches, and Martavis Bryant was hardly on the field?

Bill Belichick was very happy.

Think on that.


I think he was happy with the Villy holding call which completely changed the game


The Pats stopped the Steelers on their other drives in the second half that were Bell-heavy...not only the drive with the holding call.

The only drive the Steelers scored on was when they got the short field on the INT.


Sure. But on the drive in question, the steelers ran it every play and were crushing the Pats at the tune of 6-8 yards per rush. I'm sure that BB wasn't happy about that. The hold turned 2nd and 1 at midfield into 1 and 20 at the 30 (approximately). If not for the hold I'm convinced the Steelers score a TD on a 95 yd 8-10 minute drive and the game is over.

_________________
#IDrinkandIKnowThings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Le'Veon Bell saying the Steelers have made significant..
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1040
franco32 wrote:
It is INSANITY for a team to be considering Bell that much money...especially a team whose safety and ILB situation is DIRE. That money immediately gets you a very good ILB and safety to plug into our defense.

I mean....even if you eliminated the pot and suspension risk, the knee injuries, the social media garbage, the showing up late...it's still a stupid as fuck move to sign him for big money. This is a player who has slowed down significantly...and he's not going to get any faster as he ages. His YPC fell dramatically this year to 4.0. He completely lacks a second gear. He's also become very predictable. Teams know how to adjust to his style now and they don't worry anymore about him threatening the outside (because of his slower speed).

Jeemie is right. Belichick absolutely LOVED when Tomlin turtled in the 3Q this year and pounded Bell into his Dline. It was a gift.

Sign or draft a decent RB and for the love of God, use that money on defense. You all know deep down that is the right thing to do...even the most staunch Bell defenders.


Thank you. It's mindboggling how so many can't understand the concept of addition by subtraction.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 95 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Quixotic, Stallworth16 and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group