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 Post subject: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:38 am 
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A 4-3 is immenent... and it will be the modern day return of the Steel Curtain.

I think that the 3 techniques are on the roster already in Heyward and Hargrave. They can rotate and stay fresh. Heyward in particular can play any position on the line. I think those two are your 3 techs, and Tuitt/Walton are your 5 techs. That means you just need a 1 tech to pair with Alualu and 2 pure pass rush guy and youve re-invented this defense. There is $40 M worth of cap that can be restructured. $10 to Bell, $7 to rooks, and $13 to mess with.

If we really wanted to fix things, we would:
1) Cut Mike Mitchell and use the savings to sign Tre Boston (hed be about $8m/yr and could be backloaded, same cap hit as mitchell this year)
2) Use the first round pick to bring a bonafide edge rusher like the kid from Oklahoma or the one from Texas
3) From there we can restructure some more guys to fit Star Loutulelei in for about $8M per year.
4) Use a 2nd rounder on another safety (Marcus Allen or Jordan Whitehead), and a 3rd rounder on another edge rusher like Hubbard from OSU.
5) Move Chickillo to 4-3 DE, Dupree and Watt to Will and Sam 4-3 OLBs (backed up by Timmons - cut by Miami and Fort), designate Vwill the mike with Dirty Red as the backup.
6) spend a 5th rounder on one more space eating type DT. The other 2 5ths and 7ths can go to RB/WR/OL depth.

Now you have a true 4-3 with ass kickers up and down the line. Two deep at each spot. 10 total guys rotating. Nobody will mess with that defensive front in base OR nickel

And you let Watt and Dupree do what they do best, play in space and cover. Neither are phone booth guys. let them use their length to clog passing lanes.

Vwill plays 2 downs and stops the run tackle to tackle. Matakevich backs him up doing the same. Tre

Boston gives us a center fielder with long pieces like Davis and Allen in seam lanes and the box. Haden, Burns, Sutton, Allen, and Hilton give us a great stable of CBs.

This defense could yet be very special...

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:57 am 
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Did you send that in to the Steelers’ offices?

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 am 
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Admirable thoughts, but why fix something that’s already broken? This is way too radical of a change for the King of Yinzers.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:39 am 
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How many 3-4 DEs have switched into 4-3 DTs or 4-3 DEs with success? Can you name any?

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:48 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
How many 3-4 DEs have switched into 4-3 DTs or 4-3 DEs with success? Can you name any?


Calais Campbell
Neil Smith
Fletcher Cox went from DE to DT
Aaron Donald has been ggood in both fronts

Seattle’s Legion of Boom was a hybrid front that flipped and flopped between 3-4 and 4-3 all the time.

Patriots have flipped and flopped fronts for decades.

I am even more for shedding labels, and bringing in the pieces above creates front flexibility above all else.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:51 pm 
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I’ll add former ‘dawg Richard Seymour to your impressive list MJB.

Calais Campbell was my first thought. He had a tremendous season in Jacksonville playing multiple positions along that nasty front 4.

Cam Jordan another movable chess piece with the Saints.

How the Steelers can improve their defense is up for debate. Nothing wrong with a well run 3-4. Wade Phillips and James bettcher late of the Cardinals do a nice job running it.

My preference has always been to play multiple fronts. Move your chess pieces. Use Cam Heyward like the Jags use Campbell and how the Pats used Richard Seymour. Play TJ Watt all over the front 7.

Long post short, change some shit up, get creative, status quo isn’t going to get you past innovative, evolving teams like the jags and Pats of the league


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:44 pm 
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SteelDrama wrote:
I’ll add former ‘dawg Richard Seymour to your impressive list MJB.

Calais Campbell was my first thought. He had a tremendous season in Jacksonville playing multiple positions along that nasty front 4.

Cam Jordan another movable chess piece with the Saints.

How the Steelers can improve their defense is up for debate. Nothing wrong with a well run 3-4. Wade Phillips and James bettcher late of the Cardinals do a nice job running it.

My preference has always been to play multiple fronts. Move your chess pieces. Use Cam Heyward like the Jags use Campbell and how the Pats used Richard Seymour. Play TJ Watt all over the front 7.

Long post short, change some shit up, get creative, status quo isn’t going to get you past innovative, evolving teams like the jags and Pats of the league

Richard Seymour was a 4-3 DE? I don't remember him ever doing that.

Anyway, that was a great list of transcendental players that probably could have played in any defense ever designed. They were better in either front than any of our DL. I guess my point is I don't think we have any D front players nearly that good-- I wouldn't put transcendent label on any of them.

My related, over-arching point is: switching the defense isn't suddenly going to make our players better. We lost the one transcendent player we had, twice in a matter of a few years. I don't know if you can have a great defense without at least one.

That Jags D has at least two. Seattle had at least 5. KC last year had 3. The problem lies more in player scouting, player selection, or player development, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:14 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SteelDrama wrote:
I’ll add former ‘dawg Richard Seymour to your impressive list MJB.

Calais Campbell was my first thought. He had a tremendous season in Jacksonville playing multiple positions along that nasty front 4.

Cam Jordan another movable chess piece with the Saints.

How the Steelers can improve their defense is up for debate. Nothing wrong with a well run 3-4. Wade Phillips and James bettcher late of the Cardinals do a nice job running it.

My preference has always been to play multiple fronts. Move your chess pieces. Use Cam Heyward like the Jags use Campbell and how the Pats used Richard Seymour. Play TJ Watt all over the front 7.

Long post short, change some shit up, get creative, status quo isn’t going to get you past innovative, evolving teams like the jags and Pats of the league

Richard Seymour was a 3-4DE? I don't remember him ever doing that.

Anyway, that was a great list of transcendental players that probably could have played in any defense ever designed. They were better in either front than any of our DL. I guess my point is I don't think we have any D front players nearly that good-- I wouldn't put transcendent label on any of them.

My related, over-arching point is: switching the defense isn't suddenly going to make our players better. We lost the one transcendent player we had, twice in a matter of a few years. I don't know if you can have a great defense without at least one.

That Jags D has at least two. Seattle had at least 5. KC last year had 3. The problem lies more in player scouting, player selection, or player development, IMO.


Richard Sherman? No. But Richard Seymour played multiple spots for belichick chiefly 3-4 end then made the pro bowl as a DT after his trade to the raiders.

I agree with the part that I bolded in your post B2B.. Your guy Tomlin is responsible for two out of your three outliers namely player selection and ESPECIALLY player development.


Last edited by SteelDrama on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:36 pm 
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SteelDrama wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
SteelDrama wrote:
I’ll add former ‘dawg Richard Seymour to your impressive list MJB.

Calais Campbell was my first thought. He had a tremendous season in Jacksonville playing multiple positions along that nasty front 4.

Cam Jordan another movable chess piece with the Saints.

How the Steelers can improve their defense is up for debate. Nothing wrong with a well run 3-4. Wade Phillips and James bettcher late of the Cardinals do a nice job running it.

My preference has always been to play multiple fronts. Move your chess pieces. Use Cam Heyward like the Jags use Campbell and how the Pats used Richard Seymour. Play TJ Watt all over the front 7.

Long post short, change some shit up, get creative, status quo isn’t going to get you past innovative, evolving teams like the jags and Pats of the league

Richard Seymour was a 3-4DE? I don't remember him ever doing that.

Anyway, that was a great list of transcendental players that probably could have played in any defense ever designed. They were better in either front than any of our DL. I guess my point is I don't think we have any D front players nearly that good-- I wouldn't put transcendent label on any of them.

My related, over-arching point is: switching the defense isn't suddenly going to make our players better. We lost the one transcendent player we had, twice in a matter of a few years. I don't know if you can have a great defense without at least one.

That Jags D has at least two. Seattle had at least 5. KC last year had 3. The problem lies more in player scouting, player selection, or player development, IMO.


Richard Sherman? No. But Richard Sherman played multiple spots for belichick chiefly 3-4 end then made the pro bowl as a DT after his trade to the raiders.

I agree with the part that I bolded in your post B2B.. Your guy Tomlin is responsible for two out of your three outliers namely player selection and ESPECIALLY player development.

Sorry, I actully messed up my Richard Seymour question two ways-- typoed his last name and also phrased question backwards-- did Sherman succeed as anything other than 3-4 DE... which you answered.

I would say Tomlin has joint responsibility for player selection and is responsible if players don't develop. He built his defense around Shazier and Heyward/Tuitt... and it seemed to work pretty well.

His OLBs haven't shown development as pure pass rushers, but I thought Shazier, Watt, Dupree, and Williams all took big steps in pass coverage from where we were, say, 3 years ago. Burns is his project, as is Davis. Heyward and Tuitt picks seems pretty solid. Vince & Hilton are scrap heap guys who worked out well. Haden is here largely because of Tomlin, so I give him that. Really, his player selection/development hinges on Dupree/Burns/Hargrave, and perhaps Sutton/Allen.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Damn gymnastics meet. I can’t concentrate I typed Sherman too and tried to edit.

Anyway, I’ve always hypothesized that Tomlin had heavy input into draft picks perhaps more than any coach in the league not named Belichick and I’m ok with any coach having a strong say since he knows what players will make his system work.

So when you lose twice at home in the same season to Blake Bortles there’s nothing wrong with MJB here questioning the system or a poster like me questioning player development it all adds up to same point the defense let us down. The why it happened and how to correct it can be debated.

Good stuff fellas thanks for making gymnastics more tolerable


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:03 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
SteelDrama wrote:
I’ll add former ‘dawg Richard Seymour to your impressive list MJB.

Calais Campbell was my first thought. He had a tremendous season in Jacksonville playing multiple positions along that nasty front 4.

Cam Jordan another movable chess piece with the Saints.

How the Steelers can improve their defense is up for debate. Nothing wrong with a well run 3-4. Wade Phillips and James bettcher late of the Cardinals do a nice job running it.

My preference has always been to play multiple fronts. Move your chess pieces. Use Cam Heyward like the Jags use Campbell and how the Pats used Richard Seymour. Play TJ Watt all over the front 7.

Long post short, change some shit up, get creative, status quo isn’t going to get you past innovative, evolving teams like the jags and Pats of the league

Richard Sherman was a 3-4DE? I don't remember him ever doing that.

Anyway, that was a great list of transcendental players that probably could have played in any defense ever designed. They were better in either front than any of our DL. I guess my point is I don't think we have any D front players nearly that good-- I wouldn't put transcendent label on any of them.

My related, over-arching point is: switching the defense isn't suddenly going to make our players better. We lost the one transcendent player we had, twice in a matter of a few years. I don't know if you can have a great defense without at least one.

That Jags D has at least two. Seattle had at least 5. KC last year had 3. The problem lies more in player scouting, player selection, or player development, IMO.


I'd still like to know what the hell happened to Cam Heyward in the Jags game.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Me too.

One of the last guys on our roster I’d expect a disappearing act from.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:40 am 
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Our entire defense should be ashamed. Hopefully they reflect on it for 8 months and come back with a vengeance in 2018. Then completely fuck the pooch come playoff time while Tomlin goes to Sunglasses Hut to buy some more shades.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:47 am 
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B2B - please tell me when Heyward, Tuitt, Shazier were the reasons we had a pretty good defense? Are you talking about our run early in the year when we were playing high school QB’s?

I honestly can’t remember when this defense came up big in an important game against an above average offense. Maybe last years playoff game against the Chiefs? But I think they let KC score a late Touchdown that made the game uncomfortably close and I also think Deebo saved our ass in that game too (no need to go there).


Last edited by Suwanee88 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:56 am 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Our entire defense should be ashamed. Hopefully they reflect on it for 8 months and come back with a vengeance in 2018. Then completely fuck the pooch come playoff time while Tomlin goes to Sunglasses Hut to buy some more shades.


But see, the further I get away from the Jags loss, the more and more do I become willing to blame primarily (NOTE PRIMARILY DOES NOT MEAN ONLY OR SOLELY) the Joe's on defense. No matter the scheme, that was disgusting. Hard to blame Tomlin for the D line getting its ass handed to it in the trenches.

My close-to-settled opinion, which follows on an initial extreme urge to see Butler fired, is that we lost to the Jags primarily not bc Tomlin is a buffoon (I'll grant you that Tomlin is a buffoon for argument's sake) but bc the defense played like a bunch of bums for 60 minutes.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:46 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Our entire defense should be ashamed. Hopefully they reflect on it for 8 months and come back with a vengeance in 2018. Then completely fuck the pooch come playoff time while Tomlin goes to Sunglasses Hut to buy some more shades.


But see, the further I get away from the Jags loss, the more and more do I become willing to blame primarily (NOTE PRIMARILY DOES NOT MEAN ONLY OR SOLELY) the Joe's on defense. No matter the scheme, that was disgusting. Hard to blame Tomlin for the D line getting its ass handed to it in the trenches.

My close-to-settled opinion, which follows on an initial extreme urge to see Butler fired, is that we lost to the Jags primarily not bc Tomlin is a buffoon (I'll grant you that Tomlin is a buffoon for argument's sake) but bc the defense played like a bunch of bums for 60 minutes.

You could actually argue that it was the propensity for giving up big plays that was the difference in the season and the Jags game. Safety and CB play were worse, in a way, although the difficulty in stopping the run was obvious from preseason onwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Yup. When your defense is getting Gashed in the run game as a defense you're playing yourself up [to the LOS] too much pushing that risk higher for getting burned deep in the passing game. It was the one, two punch that left this season's defense out to dry more often than not. Regardless of whether it was high school QB's or pro level QB's. This defense couldn't stop the run even when all the perceived pro bowl players were on the field and healthy. Now is that a schematic issue or is it the players themselves? I believe it to be a combination of the two.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:40 pm 
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It has to do with the Players as well as the defense staff and so far they seemed to say it was not the coaching.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:03 pm 
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I can't agree with you more 58. I believe it is time for a change. Tomlin and his schict are old, slow and done. He has reached his shelf life maximum in Pittsburgh IMO. That said, as Swiss so recently and eloquently put it Tomlin has a job for life.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of the Curtain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Yes that is the one bad issue with the steelers and their coach for life Philosphy


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