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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:10 pm 
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I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but two thoughts come to mind before an NFL conspiracy.

1. The Patriots are a very well coached and disciplined team... that can't be disputed. I cant remember the last time I saw a Patriots player commit an egregious penalty or more specifically a personal foul at a key moment in the game. We see that multiple times in a season from the Steelers. Hell, we see that multiple times in a Steelers vs Bengals game alone by both teams.

2. It may be like the NBA where the superstars get shooting fouls called where a bench/role player wouldn't get a whistle. It may not be fair but the Patriots are the superstars and may get the benefit of the doubt at times.

On a similar note to #2... It always pissed off that Ben never gets the roughing the passer calls that other more fragile QB's routinely get. Its as if the rules are skewed because Ben is huge and hard to bring down. I gave up hoping for those calls after Ngata broke his nose in plain sight of the refs leaving it pasted to one side of his face. Currently, Cam Newton is also getting the same unfair bias for roughing the passer calls because he is also big and hard to bring down.


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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Flanker wrote:
I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but two thoughts come to mind before an NFL conspiracy.

1. The Patriots are a very well coached and disciplined team... that can't be disputed. I cant remember the last time I saw a Patriots player commit an egregious penalty or more specifically a personal foul at a key moment in the game. We see that multiple times in a season from the Steelers. Hell, we see that multiple times in a Steelers vs Bengals game alone by both teams.

2. It may be like the NBA where the superstars get shooting fouls called where a bench/role player wouldn't get a whistle. It may not be fair but the Patriots are the superstars and may get the benefit of the doubt at times.

On a similar note to #2... It always pissed off that Ben never gets the roughing the passer calls that other more fragile QB's routinely get. Its as if the rules are skewed because Ben is huge and hard to bring down. I gave up hoping for those calls after Ngata broke his nose in plain sight of the refs leaving it pasted to one side of his face. Currently, Cam Newton is also getting the same unfair bias for roughing the passer calls because he is also big and hard to bring down.


I’ve certainly seen it. Hell, in the jags games NE play easily could’ve been called for a big personal foul penalty. You don’t remember them because they aren’t called. Refs bought into the mythos.

The point is that it seems highly unlikely that the Pats are the only team to try to be disciplined, the only team to study refs tendencies, the only team to put players in position to avoid penalties. But they seem to be the only team that routinely benefits from favorable reffing. Hell — look at replay. The article curiously fails to discuss the Texans game where the TD was upheld. How is replay about discipline?


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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Quote:
’ve certainly seen it. Hell, in the jags games NE play easily could’ve been called for a big personal foul penalty. You don’t remember them because they aren’t called. Refs bought into the mythos.


^^THIS - The refs are not making the calls. Pause the the video below at 00:05 and look at the official on the sideline watching the illegal block.The egregious mistake was made. The official watched it and did nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_1L5LjsyyA

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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:16 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
if continuity counted for so much Tomlin wouldnt keep getting punked in the playoffs. BB has a system in place for a long time now sure but along with that hes a rink rat, a football junkie, cares only about winning, no drama that takes away from whats most important, winning football games. His players all refelect that as well, i mean Gronk likes to have a good time but at no time does he let that get in the way of winning, in fact most of his stupid shit happens AFTER they win, go figure!! Hes not literally creating drama for his team like our dumbass does.


Continuity and excellence both matter. There is no question that BB is a better coach than Tomlin. There's no question he's the best coach of all time for that matter.

That said, change sets you back. It's the proverbial 1 step back without any certainty that there will be 2 steps forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
if continuity counted for so much Tomlin wouldnt keep getting punked in the playoffs. BB has a system in place for a long time now sure but along with that hes a rink rat, a football junkie, cares only about winning, no drama that takes away from whats most important, winning football games. His players all refelect that as well, i mean Gronk likes to have a good time but at no time does he let that get in the way of winning, in fact most of his stupid shit happens AFTER they win, go figure!! Hes not literally creating drama for his team like our dumbass does.


Continuity and excellence both matter. There is no question that BB is a better coach than Tomlin. There's no question he's the best coach of all time for that matter.

That said, change sets you back. It's the proverbial 1 step back without any certainty that there will be 2 steps forward.



No it does not. And once you wrap your head around the fact that it is extremely unlikely that Tomlin can win a meaningful game for the Steelers in the playoffs, let alone a SB, the risk doesnt seem so great at all...to do the same thing with the same voice over and over again while not getting the desired results is insane..again Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired ...maybe the next guy is a nobody but maybe hes the next great coach..time for change..Tomlins way does not work if we re measuring success by SBs or playoff permonance in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:52 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
No it does not. And once you wrap your head around the fact that it is extremely unlikely that Tomlin can win a meaningful game for the Steelers in the playoffs, let alone a SB, the risk doesnt seem so great at all...to do the same thing with the same voice over and over again while not getting the desired results is insane..again Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired ...maybe the next guy is a nobody but maybe hes the next great coach..time for change..Tomlins way does not work if we re measuring success by SBs or playoff permonance in general.
So you deny Tomlin has made changes throughout the course of his career as steelers HC. Wha? I posted this twice already, but nobody can dispel the facts. 1. Made the run game better. 2. Protected BR. 3. Changed game plan/ scheme against the pats with the game changing on a controversial play. 4. Released Haley when he, as well as fans, saw the ineptitude with in-game play calling. I don't consider that doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. He made changes, which resulted in positive success. He may not be BB, but he's certainly in the top five currently coaching. Even business owners don't expect a super bowl every time they do business. Everything has to be aligned just right, and much of it is out of your control.

It may be unlikely and probabilities may point to him NOT leading the steelers to afccg's and the SB, but the probabilities are the same for disastrous failure with a new coach. I can't guarantee that, but it can't be guaranteed it will make a significant difference for the better by firing him either. My chances are with continuity, which has been praised league wide as being a steeler attribute that leads to success which everybody wants to emulate. And there has been success - unless you measure anything other than a super bowl win as a complete and total failure - which is a fan mentality. As has been noted already, Brady and Belichick have been together for a while. And the success keeps rolling in. A tier just above the steelers, like the steelers were a tier above the Raiders and Cowboys in the 70's. Which is attributed to a HOF QB which many consider GOAT, a TE that most certainly will be in the HOF, and a coach that almost everybody considers GOAT.

But this thread is about the Pats cheating. Maybe Tomlin should cheat as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:00 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
No it does not. And once you wrap your head around the fact that it is extremely unlikely that Tomlin can win a meaningful game for the Steelers in the playoffs, let alone a SB, the risk doesnt seem so great at all...to do the same thing with the same voice over and over again while not getting the desired results is insane..again Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired ...maybe the next guy is a nobody but maybe hes the next great coach..time for change..Tomlins way does not work if we re measuring success by SBs or playoff permonance in general.
So you deny Tomlin has made changes throughout the course of his career as steelers HC. Wha? I posted this twice already, but nobody can dispel the facts. 1. Made the run game better. 2. Protected BR. 3. Changed game plan/ scheme against the pats with the game changing on a controversial play. 4. Released Haley when he, as well as fans, saw the ineptitude with in-game play calling. I don't consider that doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. He made changes, which resulted in positive success. He may not be BB, but he's certainly in the top five currently coaching. Even business owners don't expect a super bowl every time they do business. Everything has to be aligned just right, and much of it is out of your control.

It may be unlikely and probabilities may point to him NOT leading the steelers to afccg's and the SB, but the probabilities are the same for disastrous failure with a new coach. I can't guarantee that, but it can't be guaranteed it will make a significant difference for the better by firing him either. My chances are with continuity, which has been praised league wide as being a steeler attribute that leads to success which everybody wants to emulate. And there has been success - unless you measure anything other than a super bowl win as a complete and total failure - which is a fan mentality. As has been noted already, Brady and Belichick have been together for a while. And the success keeps rolling in. A tier just above the steelers, like the steelers were a tier above the Raiders and Cowboys in the 70's. Which is attributed to a HOF QB which many consider GOAT, a TE that most certainly will be in the HOF, and a coach that almost everybody considers GOAT.

But this thread is about the Pats cheating. Maybe Tomlin should cheat as well?



Tomlin repeats the same errors over and over again, he changes things up at a glacial pace, time for someone new.


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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Flanker wrote:
I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but two thoughts come to mind before an NFL conspiracy.

1. The Patriots are a very well coached and disciplined team... that can't be disputed. I cant remember the last time I saw a Patriots player commit an egregious penalty or more specifically a personal foul at a key moment in the game. We see that multiple times in a season from the Steelers. Hell, we see that multiple times in a Steelers vs Bengals game alone by both teams.

2. It may be like the NBA where the superstars get shooting fouls called where a bench/role player wouldn't get a whistle. It may not be fair but the Patriots are the superstars and may get the benefit of the doubt at times.

On a similar note to #2... It always pissed off that Ben never gets the roughing the passer calls that other more fragile QB's routinely get. Its as if the rules are skewed because Ben is huge and hard to bring down. I gave up hoping for those calls after Ngata broke his nose in plain sight of the refs leaving it pasted to one side of his face. Currently, Cam Newton is also getting the same unfair bias for roughing the passer calls because he is also big and hard to bring down.


I’ve certainly seen it. Hell, in the jags games NE play easily could’ve been called for a big personal foul penalty. You don’t remember them because they aren’t called. Refs bought into the mythos.

The point is that it seems highly unlikely that the Pats are the only team to try to be disciplined, the only team to study refs tendencies, the only team to put players in position to avoid penalties. But they seem to be the only team that routinely benefits from favorable reffing. Hell — look at replay. The article curiously fails to discuss the Texans game where the TD was upheld. How is replay about discipline?

It seems to go in cycles where a team has a certain mystique and has the officiating in the favor. For a while the Ravens were getting and uneven number of DPI calls in their favor - we used to refer to the as Flacco balls since he would just heave them up 40+ yards downfield and hope for a penalty.......getting them way more often than they should have. On the flip side this year it was the Jags D beating the crap out of opposing receivers all year long with only DPI called against them all year ....

Until..........

You come up against the Pats!!

Then those calls you have been getting all year long seem to flip. Though the Rats did beat the Pats twice in the post season, they did it by running because they weren't getting the DPI calls they were used to and we all saw the Jags get called for more DPIs in one game than they had in the previous 18 despite playing the same way - both calls lead to key TDs for Tom Terrific (the 2nd was a valid DPI but still hadn't been called on them all year but the first was simply good coverage on an uncatchable ball).

A large part of the league's argument is that they have no reasons to favor the Pats. I'd say that just because I don't fully understand the why doesn't mean it isn't happening. The numbers speak for themselves. Even if BB's teams are the most disciplined ever, the disparity with other teams just can't be as wide as it is without some kind of bias. There will always be a few teams that commit more penalties than most but to think that no one else is capable of playing as clean of a game as the Pats defies logic.


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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:14 pm 
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The Patriots are Red White and Blue America. They're also super white.

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 Post subject: Re: Patriots and penalties. Show your friends this during SB
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:25 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The Patriots are Red White and Blue America. They're also super white.
What are you implying with that?

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