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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:12 pm 
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It's not clear from the video at all. You have to be Superman with x-ray vision to see through James forearm. I'm not. The very fact we are having this discussion...two reasonable posters...is proof that there was not indisputable evidence.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:16 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
It's not clear from the video at all. You have to be Superman with x-ray vision to see through James forearm. I'm not. The very fact we are having this discussion...two reasonable posters...is proof that there was not indisputable evidence.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


One of the reasonable posters is looking at the evidence with homer glasses on... 8-)

https://goo.gl/images/EWYKAy

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:58 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
If you don't think that is a good standard, then take it up with the NFL.


Actually, in reality... YOU need to take it up with the NFL as they ruled it incomplete which anyone with vision and a non-bias opinion would agree with.

The ball touched the ground bro get over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:13 am 
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They need to simplify the rule.

Once the ball breaks the goal line it’s a touchdown PERIOD. That’s a runner or a receiver. It’s instantaneous. Example- James scores in that scenario. So does the Eagles player. It’s seems like a simple solution unless I am missing something.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:21 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
They need to simplify the rule.

Once the ball breaks the goal line it’s a touchdown PERIOD. That’s a runner or a receiver. It’s instantaneous. Example- James scores in that scenario. So does the Eagles player. It’s seems like a simple solution unless I am missing something.


That...AND....two feet in, ball never hits ground, it's a catch. No more of this bullshit of whether ball moves a millimeter.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:45 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
One of the reasonable posters is looking at the evidence with homer glasses on... 8-)


Agreed.

But it was such a heart-breaking play.

28 seconds left.

The money was paid, the groceries were bagged, and we were headed out the door with the kids to the minivan.

And then the security alarm went off.

Another frustrating aspect for me is that his elbow looks to be down at the goal line with the ball at or over the line and he still had control at that point.

Gah! What a shitty end to the season not to have another crack at those bastards.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:26 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
They need to simplify the rule.

Once the ball breaks the goal line it’s a touchdown PERIOD. That’s a runner or a receiver. It’s instantaneous. Example- James scores in that scenario. So does the Eagles player. It’s seems like a simple solution unless I am missing something.


That...AND....two feet in, ball never hits ground, it's a catch. No more of this bullshit of whether ball moves a millimeter.


We don’t go to Super Bowl XXX if the current rule is in force, as Ernie Mills dropped the ball when he fell OOB at the one.

Somehow the NFL survived for decades without this rule, and yet everyone knew what a catch was.

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Last edited by Jeemie on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:29 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
They need to simplify the rule.

Once the ball breaks the goal line it’s a touchdown PERIOD. That’s a runner or a receiver. It’s instantaneous. Example- James scores in that scenario. So does the Eagles player. It’s seems like a simple solution unless I am missing something.


That...AND....two feet in, ball never hits ground, it's a catch. No more of this bullshit of whether ball moves a millimeter.


We don’t go to Super Bowl XXX if the current rule is in force, as Ernie Mills dropped the fall when he fell OOB at the one.

Somehow the NFL survived for decades without this rule, and yet everyone knew what a catch was.


That's true!! Or if replay was in to see Kordell Stewart go OOB, come back in to catch a TD pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:32 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
franco32 wrote:
It's not clear from the video at all. You have to be Superman with x-ray vision to see through James forearm. I'm not. The very fact we are having this discussion...two reasonable posters...is proof that there was not indisputable evidence.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


One of the reasonable posters is looking at the evidence with homer glasses on... 8-)

https://goo.gl/images/EWYKAy


Um, that picture shows an instant in time when he has two hands on the football. The ball is allowed to touch the ground if he is holding it. There is nothing conclusive about it. You need video or frame by frame in order to assess whether it was a catch.

Besides, I didn't know the NFL replay officials were allowed to consult with endzone photographers to try to establish the indisputable nature of a call. Now you are reaching to 3rd party evidence to try to support the NFL's review. You might as well stop the game completely at that point and seize all sideline cameras for additional possible evidence. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:50 am 
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franco32 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
franco32 wrote:
It's not clear from the video at all. You have to be Superman with x-ray vision to see through James forearm. I'm not. The very fact we are having this discussion...two reasonable posters...is proof that there was not indisputable evidence.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


One of the reasonable posters is looking at the evidence with homer glasses on... 8-)

https://goo.gl/images/EWYKAy


Um, that picture shows an instant in time when he has two hands on the football. The ball is allowed to touch the ground if he is holding it. There is nothing conclusive about it. You need video or frame by frame in order to assess whether it was a catch.

Besides, I didn't know the NFL replay officials were allowed to consult with endzone photographers to try to establish the indisputable nature of a call. Now you are reaching to 3rd party evidence to try to support the NFL's review. You might as well stop the game completely at that point and seize all sideline cameras for additional possible evidence. :D



If you think he’s “holding the ball” there, you are using your homer glasses that show he has the longest pinky and ring fingers in existence.

And the refs had that angle. They could see it hit the ground, and they could see the ball move when it hit the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:19 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
franco32 wrote:
Jeemie wrote:


If you think he’s “holding the ball” there, you are using your homer glasses that show he has the longest pinky and ring fingers in existence.

And the refs had that angle. They could see it hit the ground, and they could see the ball move when it hit the ground.


So now after replay, refs need to measure body parts to see if such plays are physically possibly by the length of their anatomy? If JJ had a deformity they going to take that into consideration?

Again, the evidence is NOT INDISPUTABLE.
If they would have ruled it Incomplete I'd say the same thing: there's not enough evidence to overturn the call on the field. I can't tell from the angles that he DID have control and hands under the ball
Period and end of story- stick with the original call

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:20 am 
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The simple fact that James made a football move by diving [after taking a step] over the goal line was indisputable. Once the Goal line is broken..., Touchdown Period! Debate all you want. Exercise in futility, Dilly Dilly....

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:39 am 
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Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:02 am 
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Will-the-Shake wrote:
Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


James did nothing like take multiple steps. Not even close. I still think posters thinking the reversal was obviously flawed are delusional.

If only the fucker had tucked and rolled.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:13 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


James did nothing like take multiple steps. Not even close. I still think posters thinking the reversal was obviously flawed are delusional.

If only the fucker had tucked and rolled.


Hell...if only James had let it go by...JuJu would have had it.

If only JuJu had continued straight down the sideline...he may get in and even if not, he goes OOB at about the same spot, stopping the clock.

If only our dim bulb coaches had used the three and a half minutes of free timeout they were given wisely.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:14 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
The simple fact that James made a football move by diving [after taking a step] over the goal line was indisputable. Once the Goal line is broken..., Touchdown Period! Debate all you want. Exercise in futility, Dilly Dilly....


The...refs...have...never...ruled...what...James...did...to...be...a...football...move.

Never...ever.

Prior...precedent.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:16 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


James did nothing like take multiple steps. Not even close. I still think posters thinking the reversal was obviously flawed are delusional.

If only the fucker had tucked and rolled.


Hell...if only James had let it go by...JuJu would have had it.

If only JuJu had continued straight down the sideline...he may get in and even if not, he goes OOB at about the same spot, stopping the clock.

If only our dim bulb coaches had used the three and a half minutes of free timeout they were given wisely.


Lit and Jeemie are spot on here. Especially the bolded.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:16 am 
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Donnie...stop being ridiculous.

One doesn’t have to “measure body parts” to know there’s no way James was holding the ball when it hit the ground and bounced up.

The call was a travesty, but rightly called according to the rules.

That’s why the rules are going to be changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:18 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


James did nothing like take multiple steps. Not even close. I still think posters thinking the reversal was obviously flawed are delusional.

If only the fucker had tucked and rolled.


He did what anyone else would have done in that situation...reach for the goal line. It happens in milliseconds and we're thinking just like him, just cross the goal line with the ball. Everyone saying otherwise is just not being honest. I think he made a football move and the issue of "initial" contact with the ground still sets in my mind. I think, IMO, humbly, that at the very least we should have had the ball on the one yard line. Is what it is at this point. Only solace in all of this is the Eagles won!


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:44 am 
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VASteelerGuy wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Whatever side one falls on the Jesse James catch/no catch debate, I think it’s pretty clear that the call would have stood has it occurred in the Super Bowl. NFL didn’t want anything offensively successful that looked like a clear touchdown to millions of people, and was called a touchdown on the field, micromanaged into a reversal, rewarding a defense that had failed on the play. I think the first of the two eagles touchdowns that went to review demonstrates this more than the second, where multiple steps were taken and a reversal would have been a travesty.


James did nothing like take multiple steps. Not even close. I still think posters thinking the reversal was obviously flawed are delusional.

If only the fucker had tucked and rolled.


He did what anyone else would have done in that situation...reach for the goal line. It happens in milliseconds and we're thinking just like him, just cross the goal line with the ball. Everyone saying otherwise is just not being honest. I think he made a football move and the issue of "initial" contact with the ground still sets in my mind. I think, IMO, humbly, that at the very least we should have had the ball on the one yard line. Is what it is at this point. Only solace in all of this is the Eagles won!


Not true. I very likely would have dropped the pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Soon as I saw the first replay, knew we were getting fucked!!

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:12 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Soon as I saw the first replay, knew we were getting fucked!!




yup

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Donnie...stop being ridiculous.

One doesn’t have to “measure body parts” to know there’s no way James was holding the ball when it hit the ground and bounced up.

The call was a travesty, but rightly called according to the rules.

That’s why the rules are going to be changed.


I'm being no more ridiculous than the opposing viewpoint. Again, zippo evidence to overturn THE CALL ON THE FIELD. So no, according to their "rules" they overrode their standard to make a new standard to say "I'm 99% certain that ball hits the ground because I'm making a PRESUMPTION his finger isn't under there"

That's not how the rule is written and you know that (bc I know you're not that dumb)

Refs ruled Inc - I could live with that
Refs ruled TD - I could live with that

No indisputable evidence either way to overturn the call

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:

Not true. I very likely would have dropped the pass.


:lol: :lol: - probably most of us as well


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch vs Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Donnie...stop being ridiculous.

One doesn’t have to “measure body parts” to know there’s no way James was holding the ball when it hit the ground and bounced up.

The call was a travesty, but rightly called according to the rules.

That’s why the rules are going to be changed.


I'm being no more ridiculous than the opposing viewpoint. Again, zippo evidence to overturn THE CALL ON THE FIELD. So no, according to their "rules" they overrode their standard to make a new standard to say "I'm 99% certain that ball hits the ground because I'm making a PRESUMPTION his finger isn't under there"

That's not how the rule is written and you know that (bc I know you're not that dumb)

Refs ruled Inc - I could live with that
Refs ruled TD - I could live with that

No indisputable evidence either way to overturn the call


There’s not zippo evidence.

Ball touched the ground...ball moved...you can see James did not maintain control of it.

You’re arguing with homer glasses because you want it to be an example of Refs’ favoritism to the Pats.

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