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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James was more of a TD than Ertz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I've explained it numerous times. I've posted the language of the rule. All you have done is say "Nope." Care to post the rule and explain how it wasn't a catch? I know you won't but Ill be waiting.


He does not maintain possession of the ball because it hit the fucking ground.

EDIT:

TB answered this for me...

Quote:
From page 31 of the official NFL rulebook:

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long
enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without
contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of
play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is
incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 pm 
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TB wrote:
From page 31 of the official NFL rulebook:

Quote:
Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long
enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without
contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of
play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is
incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.


James didn't stay upright enough to demonstrate he was a runner, was considered a "player going to the ground," lost control of the ball with it touching the ground before he regained control.

By rule, it was incomplete.

Now, whether the rule should be changed is a completely different argument.


You missed the key word initial. James had a push off from his knee. That should satisfy the rule. You also forgot the issue of burden of proof. The question isn't whether you think it is a catch, or that James did not make enough of a move to establish being runner. The burden is irrefutable evidence. Given that the rule is subjective, unless it is clear cut (i.e., the player hits the ground on initial contact and the ball pops out), presumably you must go with the subjective judgment on the field. That is to say, you respect the burden of proof.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 pm 
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People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James was more of a TD than Ertz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:45 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I've explained it numerous times. I've posted the language of the rule. All you have done is say "Nope." Care to post the rule and explain how it wasn't a catch? I know you won't but Ill be waiting.


He does not maintain possession of the ball because it hit the fucking ground.

EDIT:

TB answered this for me...

Quote:
From page 31 of the official NFL rulebook:

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long
enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without
contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of
play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is
incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.


Yeah read my post above and my response to TB. He is wrong and isn't parsing the language well or accounting for the burden of proof.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Miter Saw wrote:
People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


I’ve already said I believe what James did WAS a catch.

But that the NFL Has NEVER RULED that a player that did what James did was establishing himself as a runner.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Miter Saw wrote:
People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


Yeah. It is truly amazing. On top of that, they completely ignore the burden of proof. 43 hates Jesse James for...reasons...so his argument here is largely agenda driven. I think everyone else was just toeing the line of NFL reporters, even though the NFL reporters also failed to parse the language or the video.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:49 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


I’ve already said I believe what James did WAS a catch.

But that the NFL Has NEVER RULED that a player that did what James did was establishing himself as a runner.


You have at least been consistent that you believe by letter it was a catch, but that the NFL has ruling precedent. Of course, you've acknowledged that precedent may not be as strong as you state. Nevertheless, I think you have been rather honest in the debate and haven't ignored comments. I've enjoyed the debate with you as a result.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:03 am 
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The James call is still complete horseshit. We got rooked. Made a catch, made a football move, survived the initial contact with the ground. Broke the plane.

The big difference between James and Ertz’s catch was Ertz caught the bobble too. The ball is allowed to hit the ground if you have full control which Ertz did. Then it popped up and he still caught it.

You could argue they are different from that aspect too, if you want to go down the rabbit hole of he didn’t survive the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:13 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


Yeah. It is truly amazing. On top of that, they completely ignore the burden of proof. 43 hates Jesse James for...reasons...so his argument here is largely agenda driven. I think everyone else was just toeing the line of NFL reporters, even though the NFL reporters also failed to parse the language or the video.


My agenda is reality driven. James stumbles all over himself and doesn't make a football move. The Ertz play tonight was not even remotely similar.

This is a fucking stupid thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James Catch was a TD as was Ertz Catch
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:13 am 
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fortythree wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
Miter Saw wrote:
People somehow don't see james make a move after his initial contact with the ground it's hilarious how they tow the party line bc that's what Romo said or whatever.

Anyway the sound of Pats fans complaining about calls in a loss for once is going to sound like sweet music.


Yeah. It is truly amazing. On top of that, they completely ignore the burden of proof. 43 hates Jesse James for...reasons...so his argument here is largely agenda driven. I think everyone else was just toeing the line of NFL reporters, even though the NFL reporters also failed to parse the language or the video.


My agenda is reality driven. James stumbles all over himself and doesn't make a football move. The Ertz play tonight was not even remotely similar.

This is a fucking stupid thread.


It is stupid mostly due to your contributions...


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