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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
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While I would rather let Bell walk than FT him, I don't think we will.
It ties up our cap to the point where we can't get any help at FS or ILB.
KC doesn't like going into a draft with major holes. He has 2 on defense.

If Bell stays via the FT, we will obviously get a 3rd comp next year.
Look for us to pull off a trade similar to what they did with Shamarko years back.
We trade our original 2019 3rd for a mid-4th this year. That makes up for the McDonald trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Time to cut bait with the Le'veon Bell clown show. Let him try to find his greener pastures.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:15 pm 
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We need a LOLB, MLB, and FS in the worst possible way. If Hargrave continues to suck and the injury rumor was a myth...we have real problems at NT too.

Dumping 14 million on a RB in today's NFL is insanity. With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:40 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
We need a LOLB, MLB, and FS in the worst possible way. If Hargrave continues to suck and the injury rumor was a myth...we have real problems at NT too.

Dumping 14 million on a RB in today's NFL is insanity. With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.
Hopefully bell is listening to the chatter.

If he signs for the big money, then we know where his priorities are.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:50 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

If you take a bit of a risk, $7M MIGHT get you a decent defensive FA. You spend $14M on two defense FA's, one might end-up being a player and the other a JAG. Sure, we'd take that, but let's not get carried away with what $14M is actually going to do with you in FA.

The way the cap has gone up in recent years you have to build your team almost exclusively thru the draft. "Fix" 2 defensive positions AND sign a decent RB - you're talking $20M+, easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

You base your opinion on numbers alone. It's like a real estate agent using comps to tell you what your house is worth. It's useful up until a certain point.

Along comes somebody that loves the tile in the kitchen, the gazebo in the back yard, and the numbers go flying out the double pane bay window.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Imagine the kitchen has upgraded appliances.....

I love these homebuying analogies

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:12 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Imagine the kitchen has upgraded appliances.....

I love these homebuying analogies
I can put a price tag on upgraded appliances.

But how do you value : " I just love the red streaks in the tile, and the gazebo is just so cute!!!"

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

If you take a bit of a risk, $7M MIGHT get you a decent defensive FA. You spend $14M on two defense FA's, one might end-up being a player and the other a JAG. Sure, we'd take that, but let's not get carried away with what $14M is actually going to do with you in FA.

The way the cap has gone up in recent years you have to build your team almost exclusively thru the draft. "Fix" 2 defensive positions AND sign a decent RB - you're talking $20M+, easy.

This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:59 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Along comes somebody that loves the tile in the kitchen, the gazebo in the back yard, and the numbers go flying out the double pane bay window.


a.k.a. "the sucker"....problem is, in this scenario the player is the seller, which makes PIT the sucker

Congrats, you succinctly explained why overpaying other teams' castoffs is usually a bad bet.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:04 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


Money is money and the cap is fungible. The primary concern is getting value for the money you actually pay out, especially now that excess cap rolls over (and in reverse pushing money off into future years just as easily).

They could create all kinds of cap space extending & restructuring Ben alone. I'm merely giving a reality check to the fantasy that saving $14.5M in one year is some sort of windfall to load the team up in FA.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
seabs926 wrote:
This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


Money is money and the cap is fungible. The primary concern is getting value for the money you actually pay out, especially now that excess cap rolls over (and in reverse pushing money off into future years just as easily).

They could create all kinds of cap space extending & restructuring Ben alone. I'm merely giving a reality check to the fantasy that saving $14.5M in one year is some sort of windfall to load the team up in FA.

I think the fear isn’t so much the 14.5 on the one year tag, but rather 15+ per on a 4-5 year deal.
Speaking for myself, I’d love to keep Bell long term, but at the same time, make some defensive improvements. I don’t know that they can do both...tough decisions ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
I think the fear isn’t so much the 14.5 on the one year tag, but rather 15+ per on a 4-5 year deal.


I completely agree. I'm just responding to the idea that we not tagging Bell lets us sign "2 good defensive guys and a decent RB". Pure fantasy.

I could find the money to pay BOTH Bell and JJ Watt $20M for the next two years.... and then I'm cutting everybody worth a damn after that to get out of cap hell, but the point is fielding a good team is about getting value for you money. Period.

Like the Haden deal last year was a steal, because it cost them nothing to walk away if they wanted to after a year. Deals like that aren't that rare, it's just rare they actually end-up being valuable (similar deal with Wilcox and another guy....jury might still be out on MacDonald).

I doubt anyone manages their cap compartmentalizing a single year. That's just accounting and maneuvering to get under a number. I would think most teams view their cap over 3-5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:10 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
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Until there is actually a resolution—or until something awful happens—the most significant story about the 2018 offseason for the Pittsburgh Steelers is going to be the Le’Veon Bell saga and whether or not he will come to terms with the team. Failing that, the Steelers will have to decide whether or not to put the franchise tag on him. otherwise he will become an unrestricted free agent.

The Steelers running back is a two-time All-Pro and is the most productive player in the NFL in terms of yards gained per game played since he has come into the league. He is actually at the most productive pace in NFL history, becoming the fastest player to reach 8000 yards from scrimmage.

Now that the season is over, we have a bit more than a month before the new league year begins, but it will be only a couple of weeks before the team can place the franchise tag on him. it is currently unknow when or if the Steelers intend to do that in the event of the failure to reach a contract agreement.

Bell himself has said that he feels as though the two sides are “night and day” in comparison to last season, referring to the proximity toward getting a contract done. He also said that the two sides have created an artificial deadline of wanting to finish a deal prior to the date at which the franchise tag can be applied.

The problem is that Bell is the only person from which we have heard these reports. Previously, Adam Schefter cast doubt on the running back’s interpretation of events. Now, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette beat writer Ed Bouchette is doing the same.

During a recent chat session through the newspaper’s website, the veteran reporter fielded a question about whether or not the sides are as close to a deal as has been reported. “The only one who has ‘reported’ they are close to a deal is Le’Veon himself”, Bouchette replied. “I was told that is just not true”.

The paper’s account of events would seem to corroborate Schefter’s earlier report, which maintained that there have been no serious talks nor any significant progress made toward a deal. In this case, Bouchette is saying outright that he is being told a deal is not close, which is pretty significant.

Earlier in the chat, he was also asked about his ‘sense’ on whether or not a deal will ultimately get done. He responded that he is “still unsure whether Bell will be with them or not” and that he is “trying to get a better feel on that”.

Regardless of how opinions vary on whether or not a deal will get done with the All-Pro, the sides are even more sharply divided over whether or not the Steelers should re-sign him for what it would inevitably cost, which figures to be, on the low end, about $14 million per season.

I believe the Steelers have been late negotiators so who knows what will happen in a few weeks, but I am guessing he either signs a long term deal or they let him walk and we get a 3. I don't think they are going to tag him again and have to deal with the drama.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:24 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
...and have to deal with the drama.


That's the great unknown factor here. There are a lot of savvy ways to handle this, but Colbert is a pretty plain vanilla guy when it comes to managing the cap.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:10 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
We need a LOLB, MLB, and FS in the worst possible way. If Hargrave continues to suck and the injury rumor was a myth...we have real problems at NT too.

Dumping 14 million on a RB in today's NFL is insanity. With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


This is obvious. Therefore we resign Bell or tag him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:29 pm 
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I'm not saying we should walk away from Bell... but this year's class of RBs is sick, sick sick. So good.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:38 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'm not saying we should walk away from Bell... but this year's class of RBs is sick, sick sick. So good.


So.....you’re saying there’s a chance we part ways with Bell?

I’m tired of his antics. I don’t give a shit how good he is...behind this line with Ben and the receivers, a rookie could come in and put up big numbers.

Maybe not Bell-like numbers, but I bet we could find someone who we could plug and play via the draft.

And maybe have a run longer than 27 yards.

Wtf

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:34 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Maybe not Bell-like numbers, but I bet we could find someone who we could plug and play via the draft.


Sure.

The problem is, who are we really going to get for the money we save on Bell? And on top of that, now you put RB as a need....likely not getting the guy you're talking about unless you spend your first or second pick on one.

I'm tagging Bell. Drafting a safety and ILB in R1 and R2, and then grabbing another quality safety in FA (yes, we can easily find the money).

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Maybe not Bell-like numbers, but I bet we could find someone who we could plug and play via the draft.


Sure.

The problem is, who are we really going to get for the money we save on Bell? And on top of that, now you put RB as a need....likely not getting the guy you're talking about unless you spend your first or second pick on one.

I'm tagging Bell. Drafting a safety and ILB in R1 and R2, and then grabbing another quality safety in FA (yes, we can easily find the money).

Totally untrue in this draft. You can get a dynamic starter in 3, for certain, and probably in 5 or 6. Same was true last year, and now there are more quality RBs around the league than there were a year ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:36 pm 
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I think the smart people know that Bell is expendable. Unfortunately, the Douchebag Art II and the Rahk-pahnding Yinzer Nation don't think that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:27 am 
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http://www.drafttek.com/2018-NFL-Draft- ... -Draft.asp

Plenty of good replacements on that list

I love Michel

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Late to the convo, but I agree with Scunge on Hyde. I said I wanted Hyde several times towards the end of this season. I watched most of Hyde's reps this year and he played really hard most all of the time. Now, he may have been playing for his next contract and I know he's had some injury stuff in the past, but he's the real deal, and may have been the one RB I saw play this year that resembles what Bell does in our offense. I disagree with FC on Hyde - at least the player I saw this year....previous years, maybe a little less.

I would love to see what he could do behind our O line. I would think we could get him for $6M/yr pretty easily, and as long as he played like he did last year, I think we would be almost as good (maybe an extra fumble here or there - but Bell is other-worldly when it comes to that anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:57 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Late to the convo, but I agree with Scunge on Hyde.


SF has more money than anyone. I can't imagine Hyde is going to go somewhere else for less coin. And I doubt SF is going to let him go. Basically you have to hope that SF wants to pay Bell his money, and then we can grab Hyde.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Along comes somebody that loves the tile in the kitchen, the gazebo in the back yard, and the numbers go flying out the double pane bay window.


a.k.a. "the sucker"....problem is, in this scenario the player is the seller, which makes PIT the sucker

Congrats, you succinctly explained why overpaying other teams' castoffs is usually a bad bet.


Seems the grass is always greener on the other ball field.


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