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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:43 pm 
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INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything. Sometimes they are a horrendous play made by the QB, sometimes they are a guy willing to take risks to try and make something happen, sometimes receivers make huge or even subtle mistakes.

WTF has Ben been working with the past few seasons of playoff games, even going back to 2010?

Ben in his entire career has taken great care of the football. In fact, his biggest errors stand out because there are so few.

Aaron Rodgers doesn't even attempt some of the throws Ben has had to make to keep his team in games, because throughout his career he's had a decent OC-type mind as his head coach and the whole enterprise is built around his game. Rodgers has never had to protect his defense or run the ball a certain amount. And he's 5-6 since his line Super Bowl run.

What Ben's opponent has done, vs defenses that haven't been very good... this is of little import to me. You guys can make fun of me all you want-- Ben's last few years in the playoffs, essentially playing with an arm tied behind his back-- the albatross of Haley and his playcalling, missing Lev Bell in more than one game, missing AB in Den, playing a game and a quarter with a shoulder that should have kept him out of the game, balling out in NE with trash skill players, lighting up the NFL's best defense in the last loss. I'm not really sure what you're looking for out of him that he's not giving you. You deserve what you're going to get when he's gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

And Brees and Rodgers win less. With more on D.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:32 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The steelers defense? Yeah I think he could have.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:34 am 
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KC wrote:
Why would anybody want to torture themselves and watch this debacle again?

I listened to the game on an airplane. No way I would watch that shit. Or any Steelers postseason loss.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:40 am 
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Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

I am not a mind reader, nor do I stay at Holiday Inns, but maybe he thinks he has to be agressive for this team to have any chance to win with our defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:18 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

And Brees and Rodgers win less. With more on D.


Obviously the Packers have not been racking up NFCCG appearances, but GBs defense has been sucking out loud for a while and Rodgers has not had any kind of running back. Meanwhile Ben has had Bell and AB.

I don't watch every Packers game, but I have seen Rodgers make some clutch, wild-ass throws. He extends plays like Ben, too.

My impression is Rodgers absolutely carries that team on his back and people bitch about McCarthy like many do about Tomlin.

So Rodgers may win less, but I think his offensive line and skill players and his RBs have not been in the same ballpark for years and if the Packers D is better, I bet it ain't by much.

I think there's some bad faith here on your part, B2B.

I'd wager Rodgers carries his team more than Ben does his.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... dx=players

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:03 am 
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Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:37 am 
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Who really plays defense anymore? Today's NFL looks more like Arena League football. The Nick79's of the world love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).


I know I'm supposed to set aside Rodgers, but your post possibly implies that Rodgers does not make a lot of ballsy throws. But he does. I think Rodgers and Ben are very similar players.

Their stats are very similar re yards per attempt, adjusted per attempt, NY/A, and ANY/A. Rodgers is throwing downfield just as much as Ben according to the stats.

Where they differ: Rodgers kills Ben in TDs per game (post season and regular) AND has WAY less interceptions while throwing downfield just as much (going by stats, any way.)

So Rodgers is possibly as bombs away as much as Ben, but with more TDs and less interceptions. I mean, are you trying to tell me Rodgers is some kind of gutless game manager?!?! I know you are not.

Might Rodgers be as much a risk taker as Ben, but is in fact more successful? I think that is the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

I am not a mind reader, nor do I stay at Holiday Inns, but maybe he thinks he has to be agressive for this team to have any chance to win with our defense.


Throw in he traded his balls for a vagina and maybe you have a point.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:23 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


Ben played out of his mind in the playoff Jax loss. Those 4th down conversions were some of his best moments of his career.

However, I am not on the train that thinks Haley forced Ben to make a terrible decision and throw a shitty pic on our end of the field. I also do not think it was a spectacular pic by the LB. It was a patented Ben brain fart and it cost us big-time.

No way do I even come close to putting the loss primarily on Ben, however.

Also, Bradshaw may have thrown some pics, but he had, let's say, a "decent" defense iirc.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).


This is one of the two main steelers issue IMHO in a nutshell. A poor and sloppy D coupled with a conservative approach to big games. Tha approach actually makes the D issues more glaring and restricts that strength of the team. It's an odd choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


Ben played out of his mind in the playoff Jax loss. Those 4th down conversions were some of his best moments of his career.

However, I am not on the train that thinks Haley forced Ben to make a terrible decision and throw a shitty pic on our end of the field. I also do not think it was a spectacular pic by the LB. It was a patented Ben brain fart and it cost us big-time.

No way do I even come close to putting the loss primarily on Ben, however.

Also, Bradshaw may have thrown some pics, but he had, let's say, a "decent" defense iirc.


Not saying he didn’t make some amazing throws. But winning in the postseason has as much to do with your bad plays as it does the good ones.

Mistakes in the postseason are far more magnified. They just are.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).


I know I'm supposed to set aside Rodgers, but your post possibly implies that Rodgers does not make a lot of ballsy throws. But he does. I think Rodgers and Ben are very similar players.

Their stats are very similar re yards per attempt, adjusted per attempt, NY/A, and ANY/A. Rodgers is throwing downfield just as much as Ben according to the stats.

Where they differ: Rodgers kills Ben in TDs per game (post season and regular) AND has WAY less interceptions while throwing downfield just as much (going by stats, any way.)

So Rodgers is possibly as bombs away as much as Ben, but with more TDs and less interceptions. I mean, are you trying to tell me Rodgers is some kind of gutless game manager?!?! I know you are not.

Might Rodgers be as much a risk taker as Ben, but is in fact more successful? I think that is the truth.

Rodgers is a front runner. When it’s working, it’s really working and he pours it on. On the road? In a close game? He’s had some success last two years, but for the most part pedestrian numbers and results.

And it what way is Rodgers more successful? He wins less and is a .500 QB on the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:41 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Might Rodgers be as much a risk taker as Ben, but is in fact more successful? I think that is the truth.

Rodgers is a front runner. When it’s working, it’s really working and he pours it on. On the road? In a close game? He’s had some success last two years, but for the most part pedestrian numbers and results.

And it what way is Rodgers more successful? He wins less and is a .500 QB on the road.


QBs do not win games, football teams do.

Rodgers throws downfield just as much.

Rodgers has more TDs and less interceptions per game.

You know better than to say simply that Ben is more successful bc the Steelers win more.

Also, when the Steelers were losing road games, I recall you explaining why none of it was Ben's fault, but Rodgers does not get the same courtesy?

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Quote:
One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.


And one would think someone as knowledgeable as yourself would be more attuned to the differences in nit only era but several other factors.

You could also post Bradshaw’s counterparts numbers over the same stretch.

I didn’t post Ben’s numbers in a vacuum. I posted them in comparison to his counterparts in those same games.

10 INTs vs 3 INTs is losing football no matter how much spin you want to put on it.

You aren’t going to go deep in the playoffs often if your QB is turnin it over more than the other QB. You just aren’t.

Wouldn’t it be so much easier to acknowledge Ben needs to play better or I should say smarter in those spots?

He can’t coninue to be on the negative side of QBR and turnover battle and win postseason games.

Especially with his HC typically havin a decision or two that detracts from success.

The two have been a losing combination in postseason play for quite some time now.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Watching the Steelers vs. Packers replay right now. At first glance? Turnovers and Penalties are what plagues this team. Like a Cancer this team implodes in situations where they turn the ball over and generate numerous baffling penalties. JMO

Also I do not see Juju out there in this one. Lot of AB, Bryant and Rogers.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Might Rodgers be as much a risk taker as Ben, but is in fact more successful? I think that is the truth.

Rodgers is a front runner. When it’s working, it’s really working and he pours it on. On the road? In a close game? He’s had some success last two years, but for the most part pedestrian numbers and results.

And it what way is Rodgers more successful? He wins less and is a .500 QB on the road.


QBs do not win games, football teams do.

Rodgers throws downfield just as much.

Rodgers has more TDs and less interceptions per game.

You know better than to say simply that Ben is more successful bc the Steelers win more.

Also, when the Steelers were losing road games, I recall you explaining why none of it was Ben's fault, but Rodgers does not get the same courtesy?


I'm pretty sure Rodgers bested Ben in the biggest spotlight the NFL has to offer in Super Bowl XLV. Outplayed him by far. Of course, we'll now hear about Ben's decrepid O-Line and that he didn't have the luxury of passing against shitty Steelers CB's at the time. The art of excuse-making and all that.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:02 pm 
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After watching every single play of Ben's NFL career, I think he's great. But, after also seeing most of Rodger's and Bree's NFL plays -- with what my own eyes have witnessed, I can't put him over either of them in the greatness category. With that much visual data, I won't let simple stats cloud my judgement. I will say he's not that far behind, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
I'm pretty sure Rodgers bested Ben in the biggest spotlight the NFL has to offer in Super Bowl XLV. Outplayed him by far. Of course, we'll now hear about Ben's decrepid O-Line and that he didn't have the luxury of passing against shitty Steelers CB's at the time. The art of excuse-making and all that.

Even eliminating excuses-- what exactly has Rodgers done since then? He's grossly underacheived.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:26 pm 
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If Rodgers and Brees > Ben, then do McCarthy and Payton suck as coaches?

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:24 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
If Rodgers and Brees > Ben, then do McCarthy and Payton suck as coaches?


Very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:
I'm pretty sure Rodgers bested Ben in the biggest spotlight the NFL has to offer in Super Bowl XLV. Outplayed him by far. Of course, we'll now hear about Ben's decrepid O-Line and that he didn't have the luxury of passing against shitty Steelers CB's at the time. The art of excuse-making and all that.

Even eliminating excuses-- what exactly has Rodgers done since then? He's grossly underacheived.


Since then? Well, he was hurt for a good part of the 2013 and 2017 seasons, but other than winning the same number of Super Bowls as Ben since then, his teams haven't accomplished much. A few playoff games here and there. Like Ben's teams.

Listen, I know you have it in for Peyton and Rodgers. I get it. I'll always remember your "fetal position" comment about Rodgers.

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