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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
R S wrote:
He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

I don't. I think he's going to test well and he can cover.

He scored over 70 TDs... in his senior year of H.S. = FOOTBALL PLAYER.

70 TDS in one season??? :shock: Holy hell!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
R S wrote:
He impressed me in coverage. good awareness of zones, Many will probably consider him a ham -n-egger

I don't. I think he's going to test well and he can cover.

He scored over 70 TDs... in his senior year of H.S. = FOOTBALL PLAYER.

70 TDS in one season??? :shock: Holy hell!!!


Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:38 pm 
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I know it's from PFF, but....(I personally haven't seen him play a ton, but I liked what I saw when I did).

The first thing one notices about Vander Esch is his size — 6-foot-3, 240-pounds — and more specifically, his height combined with long arms gives him outstanding length for the position. Vander Esch can shrink second-level passing windows with his length and bat down passes to wide receivers he’s not even covering. He also uses his long arms to defeat blockers and make difficult tackles in space. Against the run, Vander Esch has the eyes to find the ball and has a knack for sliding past blockers to make a run stop. Vander Esch had 57 run stops and a run-stop percentage of 15.9, both marks ranked No. 1 among all FBS inside linebackers. He uses his long stride to quickly cover ground on outside runs and is also a productive pass-rusher when asked, generating four sacks, two QB hits, 12 hurries and one batted pass on his 98 pass-rushing snaps.

Vander Esch can use his athleticism to make a quick lateral move around a blocker or he can use his strength to bull-rush a blocker and he’s also very difficult for RBs to handle in pass protection.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:21 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......

Just saying that he's like the guy you'd draft first in a pickup game... threw for TDs, ran for TDs, had INTs for TDs, returned kicks for TDs... he was one of the great 8 man football players ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:30 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


Same as college. Wrist circumference

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:33 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:51 pm 
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I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:20 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


So...perfect in Tomlin’s defense?

He intrigues me, but I don’t know about 1.28


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


That's what happens when you get held back 5 years in a row...


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:51 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


assuming they play in a decent conference -- future pro players usually dominate at the HS level


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:53 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


so when dud dupree leaves, this guy will fit right in, and we'll never know that dud left


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:09 pm 
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smithessmokin wrote:
I'll be very honest, I am not a big fan. I think he is being massively over-hyped. His tape isn't great and I think he appears stiff.


I haven’t scrubbed tape on him yet. What’s your source of tape?

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:16 pm 
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I watched the following games of Leighton Vander Esch

2017

UVA
Washington State
Colorado State
Oregon

2016 you will struggle to find him.

My thoughts in mid Jan

Very Very soft at the point of attack
Horrible when engaged with a big
Medium size fish in a puddle sized pond
Not overly impressed in coverage
Slow feet
Takes false steps
Struggles to read blocking schemes
Zero explosion...He doesn't find and track
Plays tall/upright
Rarely beats a block

I would consider in round 6

Prefer Frank Ginda San Jose State
i

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:52 pm 
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FC wrote:
I watched the following games of Leighton Vander Esch

2017

UVA
Washington State
Colorado State
Oregon

2016 you will struggle to find him.

My thoughts in mid Jan

Very Very soft at the point of attack
Horrible when engaged with a big
Medium size fish in a puddle sized pond
Not overly impressed in coverage
Slow feet
Takes false steps
Struggles to read blocking schemes
Zero explosion...He doesn't find and track
Plays tall/upright
Rarely beats a block

I would consider in round 6

Prefer Frank Ginda San Jose State
i

FC, my brother, you are really really good at rooting out inside LBs who can fight off a block and have good instincts/few false steps. However, we all have our challenges, and yours is trying to embrace the new style NFL LB... the guy who might not be able to beat a block but he can run and he can cover TEs and RBs and WRs. I 100% agree that the characteristics you look for are really important and pretty rare; but a guy who is above the line as a run defender AND has great coverage skills beyond going to the flat with an RB or slow footed TE... those guys are INCREDIBLY rare... and we're currently trying to replace one that took two years to develop into that guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Lynch wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:

Wonder how high school stats can be used to gauge pro careers......


I dunno, but I can tell you one thing. I was one HECK of a good football player in jr high school.


That's what happens when you get held back 5 years in a row...


Lol... I WAS UNSTOPPABLE!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 pm 
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B2B my brother if you don't have a way to stop the run than pass coverage is meaningless.

Just to be clear I think LVE sucks.

He sucks against the run...He sucks in coverage.

Best comp I've seen


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Oh, Gawd, the Big Kat. Hey, pretty good college player, at least. Nothing like stirring up the ghosts of the John Pooper Era to lure a Buckeye fan back to the main board.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:22 am 
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Ice wrote:
Oh, Gawd, the Big Kat. Hey, pretty good college player, at least. Nothing like stirring up the ghosts of the John Pooper Era to lure a Buckeye fan back to the main board.

COOOOP !!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:31 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Ice wrote:
Oh, Gawd, the Big Kat. Hey, pretty good college player, at least. Nothing like stirring up the ghosts of the John Pooper Era to lure a Buckeye fan back to the main board.

COOOOP !!! :mrgreen:


Couldn't beat *ichigan to save his life. The Lloyd Carr of Ohio State University football.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:19 am 
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I'm not going to lie. He has a little stiffness to him. But that could be a partial illusion due to his long arms and length. I will say he didn't look stiff at all dropping into zone and locating crossers. As I've always said about ILB. If you're getting engaged by OL coming off clean in a 1 on 1 situation, well, you can probably count on 1 hand the number of ILBs that can regularly defeat that and look good doing it in the last decade.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:51 am 
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R S wrote:
I'm not going to lie. He has a little stiffness to him. But that could be a partial illusion due to his long arms and length. I will say he didn't look stiff at all dropping into zone and locating crossers. As I've always said about ILB. If you're getting engaged by OL coming off clean in a 1 on 1 situation, well, you can probably count on 1 hand the number of ILBs that can regularly defeat that and look good doing it in the last decade.


Farrior was a LB that could not take on a Olineman but he has Big Snack handling that problem. Shazier could not take on a lineman. He just outran them.

The question will be is LVE athletic enough to avoid Olineman and make the play in the gap?

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:10 pm 
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FC wrote:
B2B my brother if you don't have a way to stop the run than pass coverage is meaningless.

Just to be clear I think LVE sucks.

He sucks against the run...He sucks in coverage.

Best comp I've seen


Sure, if a guy CAN'T stop the run, then his coverage is meaningless. But, by the same token, if he's really good at stopping the run but can't cover, then he's just going to give up bigger plays.

Point is: ILBs have to have a minimum threshold of above average at both skills and hopefully one outlier set, right? Or they have to be able to be developed to be that guy.

I mean, hell, Ryan Shazier wasn't good at either in college, really... and we'd all take him back in a heartbeat right about now.

I'm not sure about LVE or any of the ILB prospects in terms of who has the skills... I think it has to be about: who has the traits that you can get to above average at both and maybe really good at coverage also. Therefore, I'm looking at who is really good in coverage and then seeing how they play the run and trying to get a feel for: are they a liability? Do they need to be clean? Can they take on blocks? Do they take false steps? For me-- for the Steelers-- it has to start with coverage, I think. Two different ways of trying to get to the same goal.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:57 pm 
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http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/0 ... as-stingy/
Pittsburgh cannot seemingly escape the portrayal that dogged them almost 20 years ago in some quarters.


http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/0 ... -steelers/
First round | Marcus Allen | S | Penn State

Second round | Mike Hughes | CB | UCF

Third round | Uchenna Nwosu | EDGE | USC


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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:07 pm 
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jebrick wrote:
R S wrote:
I'm not going to lie. He has a little stiffness to him. But that could be a partial illusion due to his long arms and length. I will say he didn't look stiff at all dropping into zone and locating crossers. As I've always said about ILB. If you're getting engaged by OL coming off clean in a 1 on 1 situation, well, you can probably count on 1 hand the number of ILBs that can regularly defeat that and look good doing it in the last decade.


Farrior was a LB that could not take on a Olineman but he has Big Snack handling that problem. Shazier could not take on a lineman. He just outran them.

The question will be is LVE athletic enough to avoid Olineman and make the play in the gap?


I agree, that is the question. Technique, instinct, football IQ. All factors.

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 Post subject: Re: Kiper Mock 2.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/02/22/unfair-and-inaccurate-to-characterize-steelers-organization-as-stingy/
Pittsburgh cannot seemingly escape the portrayal that dogged them almost 20 years ago in some quarters.


http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2018/0 ... -steelers/
First round | Marcus Allen | S | Penn State

Second round | Mike Hughes | CB | UCF

Third round | Uchenna Nwosu | EDGE | USC


First time I've seen Allen mocked to us in the 1st (gags).


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