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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:36 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
... which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star?


I seem to remember a Cowher team going to the SB after losing Rod Woodson...

Otherwise, the better question is "which defense would absolutely suck after losing one player"? And I think that question begins and ends with PIT.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
... which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star?


I seem to remember a Cowher team going to the SB after losing Rod Woodson...

Otherwise, the better question is "which defense would absolutely suck after losing one player"? And I think that question begins and ends with PIT.

Different era, totally... and they had most of their draft investment and salary cap invested in defense... and an offense built to protect that D.

And, being honest, they still had Greg Lloyd and a HOFer at edge rusher, among other things.

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PIT 30, LAC 17, NFL 16


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I don't think anybody on this board wants McDonald gone, but it is amazing how many stories I have read on other sites, other media that want us to cut McDonald to save cap space.

I watched Bryant disappear last season for the most part. I even predicted that he wouldn't set the world on fire coming back from suspension which is the reason why I was wishing the Steelers would spend a 2nd round pick on a WR last draft. When they drafted JuJu my prayers were answered.

Now the narrative is that Bryant in the last year of his contract and is just going to explode and have his best year ever!!! With JuJu and McDonald on board now it just seems less likely.

I don't know, let me put it this way. The draft has started the Buffalo Bills are on the clock. They have two back to back picks with the 21st and 22nd.

The Steelers are picking 28. Tremaine Edmunds somehow has not been picked and is available. Derwin James likewise is still available. Colbert calls Buffalo and says hey you willing to move down 6 spots? We are offering Bryant, no picks just Bryant.

Buffalo is looking for a WR, and all they have to do is move down 6 spots to pick him up? Why wouldn't they make that trade?

And how many on this board would not just trade Bryant for Edmunds or James?

I'd rather give up a 2 or 3 next year to move up those spots, knowing that injuries happen and that Bryant would help this year on top of bringing us a decent comp pick after he leaves in FA. But, I do like the idea of having the option of using Bryant as trade bait, especially with a WR starved team. Hell, I MIGHT be tempted to give up this years' and next years' first to move up and get James in the top 10-15 picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Shazier is the best small-framed player we’ve ever had

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:19 pm 
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955876 wrote:

No draft pick we get in return can be counted on to start or be a significant contributor in 2018. Bryant can.


You mean like the way Juju didn't meet either of those criteria?

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Yeah, but think about what you just said-- which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star? I think it just revealed how good Troy or Shazier was, for all their faults.

They didn't give up 40 to Blake Bortles... they got destroyed in the run game because 2/3 of the starting DL was playing hurt and Sean Spence was starting at ILB and they got freight trained in the run game. They need to greatly improve Safety and Mack ILB depth and with even a plus starter at ILB and an average starter at the two safety spots, they'll be a top 10 defense. Says more about the state of the NFL than that they'll be objectively great... but the state of the league is what it is. Look at the postseason that just happened. Some of the best defenses in the league were in that tournament and everybody got toasted at least once.


Except the Bears absolutely SHOVED THE BALL UP OUR ASS on the ground.

...and we couldn't stop them at all. The lowly Bears absolutely TRASHED our front 7....and that was with our outlier star front and center, present, healthy and right there on the field.

Oh and Mike Glennon beat Mike Tomlin.

Again.

There were A LOT of troubling signs for this defense, before the roof caved in.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Run defense was bullshit at the end of last tear, terrible in preseason, awful with Shazier at times, and worse without him. There no coincidence some bad QBs have beaten them— those teams generally pair that meh QB with and OL and run game.

With all that last year, they finished 12th, adjusted for level of competition and how well those teams did vs everyone else.

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PIT 30, LAC 17, NFL 16


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:31 pm 
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I can't believe so many think the Steelers are just going to use ALL of their picks on defense for his draft. Did the JuJu pick do nothing to disprove that last year? Hell, they spent 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks last year on offense when they had intentions to improve the defense.

So what is different this year? Nothing that I can see. The Steelers will still have a well balanced draft and spend picks on offense. I would not be surprised to see them spend one of their top 3 picks (in rounds 1-3) on an offensive player.

Ramon Foster is in his last year of his contract and we will lose Chris Hubbard, and Hawkins has not been impressive at all. Gilbert has two years left on his contract, has become injury prone again, was suspended for performance enhancing drugs and was griping about not being paid enough. I could see an offensive linemen being selected at the end of round 2 or in round 3. BPA.

As much as I am optimistic about Vance McDonald and having Jesse James as a decent #2, maybe this is the year where the Steelers have no intention of drafting a TE early, but then a talented player falls into their laps and they pull the trigger on him in round 2 or 3 like JuJu? Most may not like it but I would be okay if that player is BPA and can supercharge the TE group like JuJu did.

Connor is coming off the knee injury, and Fitz is just meh, they probably won't bring back Ridley. There is a need for a RB, if Bell is kept on the franchise tag and gets injured game one, what do you do? Besides does anybody look forward to watching Bell hold out, take forever to sign his franchise tag, then show up for the last preseason game, then take 4 games into the regular season to get into game shape? Piss on that! If the Steelers drafted a RB in round 1 or 2, then Bell is signing that franchise tag immediately, Bell is showing up to camp immediately. He will suddenly have a sense of urgency because that shiny new draft pick will get more and more reps and get more comfortable the longer Bell would try and delay signing his franchise tag and coming in like last year.

That new rookie RB can help spell Bell and help on kick returns and then take over in 2019 with a year under his belt with the team. I would actually prefer that they do draft his replacement this year.

WR. Too many are worried about replacing Bryant if we traded him away? I got news for you, the WR group is in need of talent and draft picks regardless!! Eli Rogers coming off serious injury and probably will lose speed and quickness that he couldn't afford to lose, also in the last year with the team probably. Bryant in the last year of his contract, Bey in the last year of his contract, Hunter not under contract. JuJu and Brown only WRs certain to be here in 2019. We needed to draft a WR this year anyway.

Also, can't we put that myth to bed about rookie WRs not having any impact with the Steelers?

2017 JuJu 58 catches 917 yards, 7 TDs, also 1 TD on kick return, 2nd round pick
2014 Bryant, 26 catches 549 yards, 8 TDs, 4th round pick
2009 Wallace 39 catches 756 yards, 6 TDs, 3rd round pick

I would easily take any of those rookie WRs production over what Bryant did for us last season. The Steelers could easily draft a WR in round 2 or 3 this year and could produce pretty well with Ben and the offense and supporting cast. I hear that this WR class is weak, but I don't really believe that. At the top, in round 1, yeah, you don't want to spend a pick, but in rounds 2 and 3? Plenty of Steeler type of WRs. Again, I can easily see the Steelers drafting a WR in round 2 or 3 this year, BPA.

OT/G, WR, TE, and RB. Those are 4 positions that could sway the Steelers to spending a pick in rounds 1-3.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:39 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Yeah, but think about what you just said-- which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star? I think it just revealed how good Troy or Shazier was, for all their faults.

They didn't give up 40 to Blake Bortles... they got destroyed in the run game because 2/3 of the starting DL was playing hurt and Sean Spence was starting at ILB and they got freight trained in the run game. They need to greatly improve Safety and Mack ILB depth and with even a plus starter at ILB and an average starter at the two safety spots, they'll be a top 10 defense. Says more about the state of the NFL than that they'll be objectively great... but the state of the league is what it is. Look at the postseason that just happened. Some of the best defenses in the league were in that tournament and everybody got toasted at least once.

I'm sorry perhaps I read the scoreboard incorrectly. What was the final score at the end of the divisional game? That was after getting their asses kicked by Bortles led Jaguars in the regular season game 30-9. Both At Home! The Bears was the one I forgot about thanks KC. All had the same results from the same terrible defense. Humiliated and embarrassed. Come on B2B you can't word your way around the sad absolute that stares us all in the face everyday. The Bortles led Jaguars kicked the Steelers asses up and down the field in both games In Pittsburgh. The last one was the doosie IMO. You guys want to live in some delusional existence that's your deal I prefer to stay in reality. For the record I used Troy as an example and it wasn't a compliment. At least not to Colbert and Tomlin.

This is what I pictured you looked like reading my post....
Image


I agree Scunge. I forget what thread it was in I posted. I too believe they draft a RB in particular in the their first 3 RND's. I'm thinking second day.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:34 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Run defense was bullshit at the end of last tear, terrible in preseason, awful with Shazier at times, and worse without him. There no coincidence some bad QBs have beaten them— those teams generally pair that meh QB with and OL and run game.

With all that last year, they finished 12th, adjusted for level of competition and how well those teams did vs everyone else.


The D finished the RS 11th Pts/Dr and 10th TO's/Dr

Not what we are accustomed to in Steelers Nation but pretty good and (were) on the rise.

The loss of Shazier changes all that. Unique player, and fit well into what Tomlin/Butler seem to be wanting this defense to morph into for the future.

Not sure where it goes from here. Can Watt develop into a difference maker?


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
The Fournette led Jaguars kicked the Steelers asses up and down the field in both games In Pittsburgh.

Fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:27 am 
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They lost Shazier in fucking Wk13....Can we stop pretending like he suddenly went out in the championship game and the coaches were in shock?!?

It takes a special kind of Tomlin nuthugger to give a pass because they lost ONE FUCKING GUY FOUR WEEEKS BEFORE THE END OF THE REGULAR SEASON.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:10 am 
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Does it really matter who it was? Whether it was Bortles himself of Leonard Fournette it really doesn't make any difference to me. They both touched the ball on an offense that clowned [humiliated] the Steelers defense [in Pittsburgh] not once but twice, with and without Shazier. My point is simple. Fix it, and stop relying on only one player to cover up all the JAG players in all the other positions. How many first rounders are there on that defense? Everyone suspects that number to grow so, Tombert needs to have an outstanding draft.

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Ledyard firmly believes the Steelers could find the best running back in the draft staring them in the face... https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/969522956870221824


Wonder how that would go over here with the defense in glaring need of safety, ILB and Edge/DLine help? Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Wonder how that would go over here with the defense in glaring need of safety, ILB and Edge/DLine help? Thoughts?


I think few people wouldn't be in favor....$14.5M this year and then Bell might walk anyway isn't good value. But it only makes sense if you can do something with his money, and there are few sure things anymore available in FA.

Paying Bell one more year means there's no real risk and no hole needing to be filled immediately, and likely getting an R3 comp in a few years.

But Bell is maybe the guy you should look for in a Clinton Dix-type trade (I know GB wouldn't be interested, just an example).....provided he signs the franchise tender. THAT would be a bold move - swap Bell for a defensive stud, and then grab a RB in the 2nd or 3rd. Hell, maybe you can get Hyde and then don't even need to draft a RB.

Assuming Bell signs the tender, what is he worth in a trade? Money may not be a big sticking point for a few teams with boatloads of cap ....mid-R2, perhaps. Get creative possibly even late R1 (like a contigent R1/R2 triggered by Bell signing a l-t deal).

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