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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:32 pm 
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And let's say Bryant is an R4 comp 2 yrs from now vs. an R3 (at best) this year. You're talking 50/50 picks and not really much difference in the value.

But he can DEFINITELY contribute this year. It's a free option, and if he really balls they might even consider an RFA tender. I can't see a logical reason to take less than an early R3 in value for the guy....and that seems very unlikely to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Lynch wrote:
Are you fucking retarded man? Seriously, how many yards were thrown for against jax??? Ya think Bryant may have had something to do with that?

Now contrast that offensive playoff performance with the one using hamilton, coates, etc... See any differences there?


Sorry, I didn't see Bryant really do ALL that much against Jax. Funny how everybody wants Vance McDonald gone but he led the team that day in catches with 10, 10 catches for 112 yards. Ben targeted him the most that game as well.

Now that Vance McDonald and Ben have a full offseason to work together you could see McDonald approach a 1,000 yards receiving. You will probably have JuJu as a 1,000 WR, Brown, obviously over 1,000. Bryant will in all likelihood find himself on the sidelines twiddling his thumbs more and more.

Trade him now and get some value, even if it is too move up in a round. Some of our best players have come by moving up in the 1st or 2nd round. We moved up to get Chad Brown, to get Casey Hampton, to get Troy Polamalu, to get Santonio Holmes. We can't afford to trade one of our 3rd round picks to move up but to use Bryant? Yeah, makes perfect sense.


You don't think he ran coverage off McDonald/Bell some?

....and this year, do you not think brown juju and bryant will be on the field at least 66.6% of the time?


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 am 
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If there's a chance a team like the Packers [example] want to trade straight up for Bryant and the Steelers net Clinton-Dix, I do that deal yesterday. I know as it stands now the value leans towards keeping Bryant on this offense. As we found out last season it doesn't matter if you are loaded at WR. The fact that your defense can't stop the opponent from scoring more points than your offense is the bigger problem. That is where I've been coming from the whole time. I really dig this debate it's gotten good. Kodiak, 95, stosh even lynch have had some great points. I'm still leaning on the side of trading Bryant in the right scenario. Not gonna change my mind. Probably a good thing I don't make these choices for real. :geek:


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Curious, does anyone see the value of Bryant to the Steelers (not necessarily his trade value) diminished by the potential change to the pass interference rules? Assuming The pass interference rules change it seems like it tips the scales a little more towards trade if a trade can fill a clear need.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
If there's a chance a team like the Packers [example] want to trade straight up for Bryant and the Steelers net Clinton-Dix, I do that deal yesterday. I know as it stands now the value leans towards keeping Bryant on this offense. As we found out last season it doesn't matter if you are loaded at WR. The fact that your defense can't stop the opponent from scoring more points than your offense is the bigger problem. That is where I've been coming from the whole time. I really dig this debate it's gotten good. Kodiak, 95, stosh even lynch have had some great points. I'm still leaning on the side of trading Bryant in the right scenario. Not gonna change my mind. Probably a good thing I don't make these choices for real. :geek:

I’m with ya, 77. The key words are “right scenario”. I don’t think anyone is saying trade him for a draft pick just to get rid of him. But if you can trade him for a player that helps the defense, right now, then it should be strongly considered.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Colbert said today that they weren't looking to trade him, so take that for what it's worth I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:41 pm 
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To put this discussion to Bed....

Quote:
@dlolley_pgh
Kevin Colbert just said the #Steelers are not interested in trading Martavis Bryant and have not called anyone. Said they have gotten calls but have said they aren't interested in trading him. https://twitter.com/dlolley_pgh/status/ ... 9414815744


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I don't think anybody on this board wants McDonald gone, but it is amazing how many stories I have read on other sites, other media that want us to cut McDonald to save cap space.

I watched Bryant disappear last season for the most part. I even predicted that he wouldn't set the world on fire coming back from suspension which is the reason why I was wishing the Steelers would spend a 2nd round pick on a WR last draft. When they drafted JuJu my prayers were answered.

Now the narrative is that Bryant in the last year of his contract and is just going to explode and have his best year ever!!! With JuJu and McDonald on board now it just seems less likely.

I don't know, let me put it this way. The draft has started the Buffalo Bills are on the clock. They have two back to back picks with the 21st and 22nd.

The Steelers are picking 28. Tremaine Edmunds somehow has not been picked and is available. Derwin James likewise is still available. Colbert calls Buffalo and says hey you willing to move down 6 spots? We are offering Bryant, no picks just Bryant.

Buffalo is looking for a WR, and all they have to do is move down 6 spots to pick him up? Why wouldn't they make that trade?

And how many on this board would not just trade Bryant for Edmunds or James?

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I don't think anybody on this board wants McDonald gone, but it is amazing how many stories I have read on other sites, other media that want us to cut McDonald to save cap space.

I watched Bryant disappear last season for the most part. I even predicted that he wouldn't set the world on fire coming back from suspension which is the reason why I was wishing the Steelers would spend a 2nd round pick on a WR last draft. When they drafted JuJu my prayers were answered.

Now the narrative is that Bryant in the last year of his contract and is just going to explode and have his best year ever!!! With JuJu and McDonald on board now it just seems less likely.

I don't know, let me put it this way. The draft has started the Buffalo Bills are on the clock. They have two back to back picks with the 21st and 22nd.

The Steelers are picking 28. Tremaine Edmunds somehow has not been picked and is available. Derwin James likewise is still available. Colbert calls Buffalo and says hey you willing to move down 6 spots? We are offering Bryant, no picks just Bryant.

Buffalo is looking for a WR, and all they have to do is move down 6 spots to pick him up? Why wouldn't they make that trade?

And how many on this board would not just trade Bryant for Edmunds or James?

Well for one you're not trading Bryant for Edmunds or James, you are also giving up a 1st round pick with that. I'll take my chances with Bryant and the 1st rounder.

We need 3 starting caliber WRs in case of injury, we saw that Bryant was pretty valuable when Brown was out this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:42 pm 
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I would Scunge but I'm sure you already know that. Especially Derwin James. The Mel Blount of safeties.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:56 pm 
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No need to trade Bryant we need him for another run at a SB and you can always draft a WR in the draft.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:58 am 
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steelmann58 wrote:
No need to trade Bryant we need him for another run at a SB and you can always draft a WR in the draft.

See that's the conundrum 58. With limited draft picks this season do you really want to spend one on a WR? RB? TE? QB? with the defense in a shambles I think every draft pick needs applied on the defense. Perhaps even doubling up on LB'er and Safety. I know most here don't subscribe to the same thinking but it makes sense to apply those 7 draft picks to the defense IMO. Of course it also depends what they're able to do in FA before the draft. I suspect they'll look at drafting at least 1 offensive player. If I was a betting man I'd say they're looking at adding a RB because Bell is a greedy malcontent.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:15 am 
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Let's be real: defense isn't in a shambles-- it has two key positions that need to be filled, and some young players that need to be more consistent-- have shown flashes but haven't managed to put it all together. It's possible Burns, Davis, Dupree, & Hargrave, and even the late-season drop off of TJ Watt will all turn out to be no better and then it truly will be in shambles... but even all of that and with Haden being out for an extended time and Shazier being out for a month and Tuitt and Hargrave apparently playing hurt all season and Burns losing his mind at least once per game and Mitchell playing hurt and sucking... They were still an above average NFL defense last year. Defensive penalties were way down, they set a team record for sacks (while blitzing much less than an average NFL team), and they stabilized the CB situation that had been a dumpster fire only a season and a half earlier.

Hell, there's hope for the future at CB, because Burns will either start playing to expectations or they will go to a promising Sutton. Maybe Brian Allen will take a step. etc.

Keep the Mack from being a dumpster fire and do to the safety position group what you did to the CB group... they are definitely good enough for a playoff run.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:25 am 
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Can't stop the run. Can't stop the pass. What about that doesn't imply shambles. Come on B2B! They allowed Blake fucking Bortles 40+ points in a game in which they lost. One and done in the playoffs. You give them more credit than they deserve. Yes they set a [franchise] record in sacks/pressures. That part was definitely awesome. Then they fell off the planet at the end of the season when it really mattered. They were soft and they need quality depth in the middle of that defense. If Shazier had not been injured he may have covered a lot of that up. Once Shazier was injured the defense was exposed for who they really are, soft. After only one dominant player is eliminated from the field. Like the defense without Troy back in the day. You knew the defense would be tested and it became a nailbiter. Everytime Shazier missed time the middle of that defense was exposed. Nose, ILB, safety is soft up the middle. Need game changers and play makers. And what I meant by shambles is Paper Tigers.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:44 am 
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Yeah, but think about what you just said-- which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star? I think it just revealed how good Troy or Shazier was, for all their faults.

They didn't give up 40 to Blake Bortles... they got destroyed in the run game because 2/3 of the starting DL was playing hurt and Sean Spence was starting at ILB and they got freight trained in the run game. They need to greatly improve Safety and Mack ILB depth and with even a plus starter at ILB and an average starter at the two safety spots, they'll be a top 10 defense. Says more about the state of the NFL than that they'll be objectively great... but the state of the league is what it is. Look at the postseason that just happened. Some of the best defenses in the league were in that tournament and everybody got toasted at least once.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:36 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
... which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star?


I seem to remember a Cowher team going to the SB after losing Rod Woodson...

Otherwise, the better question is "which defense would absolutely suck after losing one player"? And I think that question begins and ends with PIT.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
... which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star?


I seem to remember a Cowher team going to the SB after losing Rod Woodson...

Otherwise, the better question is "which defense would absolutely suck after losing one player"? And I think that question begins and ends with PIT.

Different era, totally... and they had most of their draft investment and salary cap invested in defense... and an offense built to protect that D.

And, being honest, they still had Greg Lloyd and a HOFer at edge rusher, among other things.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
I don't think anybody on this board wants McDonald gone, but it is amazing how many stories I have read on other sites, other media that want us to cut McDonald to save cap space.

I watched Bryant disappear last season for the most part. I even predicted that he wouldn't set the world on fire coming back from suspension which is the reason why I was wishing the Steelers would spend a 2nd round pick on a WR last draft. When they drafted JuJu my prayers were answered.

Now the narrative is that Bryant in the last year of his contract and is just going to explode and have his best year ever!!! With JuJu and McDonald on board now it just seems less likely.

I don't know, let me put it this way. The draft has started the Buffalo Bills are on the clock. They have two back to back picks with the 21st and 22nd.

The Steelers are picking 28. Tremaine Edmunds somehow has not been picked and is available. Derwin James likewise is still available. Colbert calls Buffalo and says hey you willing to move down 6 spots? We are offering Bryant, no picks just Bryant.

Buffalo is looking for a WR, and all they have to do is move down 6 spots to pick him up? Why wouldn't they make that trade?

And how many on this board would not just trade Bryant for Edmunds or James?

I'd rather give up a 2 or 3 next year to move up those spots, knowing that injuries happen and that Bryant would help this year on top of bringing us a decent comp pick after he leaves in FA. But, I do like the idea of having the option of using Bryant as trade bait, especially with a WR starved team. Hell, I MIGHT be tempted to give up this years' and next years' first to move up and get James in the top 10-15 picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Shazier is the best small-framed player we’ve ever had

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:19 pm 
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955876 wrote:

No draft pick we get in return can be counted on to start or be a significant contributor in 2018. Bryant can.


You mean like the way Juju didn't meet either of those criteria?

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:23 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Yeah, but think about what you just said-- which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star? I think it just revealed how good Troy or Shazier was, for all their faults.

They didn't give up 40 to Blake Bortles... they got destroyed in the run game because 2/3 of the starting DL was playing hurt and Sean Spence was starting at ILB and they got freight trained in the run game. They need to greatly improve Safety and Mack ILB depth and with even a plus starter at ILB and an average starter at the two safety spots, they'll be a top 10 defense. Says more about the state of the NFL than that they'll be objectively great... but the state of the league is what it is. Look at the postseason that just happened. Some of the best defenses in the league were in that tournament and everybody got toasted at least once.


Except the Bears absolutely SHOVED THE BALL UP OUR ASS on the ground.

...and we couldn't stop them at all. The lowly Bears absolutely TRASHED our front 7....and that was with our outlier star front and center, present, healthy and right there on the field.

Oh and Mike Glennon beat Mike Tomlin.

Again.

There were A LOT of troubling signs for this defense, before the roof caved in.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Run defense was bullshit at the end of last tear, terrible in preseason, awful with Shazier at times, and worse without him. There no coincidence some bad QBs have beaten them— those teams generally pair that meh QB with and OL and run game.

With all that last year, they finished 12th, adjusted for level of competition and how well those teams did vs everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:31 pm 
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I can't believe so many think the Steelers are just going to use ALL of their picks on defense for his draft. Did the JuJu pick do nothing to disprove that last year? Hell, they spent 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks last year on offense when they had intentions to improve the defense.

So what is different this year? Nothing that I can see. The Steelers will still have a well balanced draft and spend picks on offense. I would not be surprised to see them spend one of their top 3 picks (in rounds 1-3) on an offensive player.

Ramon Foster is in his last year of his contract and we will lose Chris Hubbard, and Hawkins has not been impressive at all. Gilbert has two years left on his contract, has become injury prone again, was suspended for performance enhancing drugs and was griping about not being paid enough. I could see an offensive linemen being selected at the end of round 2 or in round 3. BPA.

As much as I am optimistic about Vance McDonald and having Jesse James as a decent #2, maybe this is the year where the Steelers have no intention of drafting a TE early, but then a talented player falls into their laps and they pull the trigger on him in round 2 or 3 like JuJu? Most may not like it but I would be okay if that player is BPA and can supercharge the TE group like JuJu did.

Connor is coming off the knee injury, and Fitz is just meh, they probably won't bring back Ridley. There is a need for a RB, if Bell is kept on the franchise tag and gets injured game one, what do you do? Besides does anybody look forward to watching Bell hold out, take forever to sign his franchise tag, then show up for the last preseason game, then take 4 games into the regular season to get into game shape? Piss on that! If the Steelers drafted a RB in round 1 or 2, then Bell is signing that franchise tag immediately, Bell is showing up to camp immediately. He will suddenly have a sense of urgency because that shiny new draft pick will get more and more reps and get more comfortable the longer Bell would try and delay signing his franchise tag and coming in like last year.

That new rookie RB can help spell Bell and help on kick returns and then take over in 2019 with a year under his belt with the team. I would actually prefer that they do draft his replacement this year.

WR. Too many are worried about replacing Bryant if we traded him away? I got news for you, the WR group is in need of talent and draft picks regardless!! Eli Rogers coming off serious injury and probably will lose speed and quickness that he couldn't afford to lose, also in the last year with the team probably. Bryant in the last year of his contract, Bey in the last year of his contract, Hunter not under contract. JuJu and Brown only WRs certain to be here in 2019. We needed to draft a WR this year anyway.

Also, can't we put that myth to bed about rookie WRs not having any impact with the Steelers?

2017 JuJu 58 catches 917 yards, 7 TDs, also 1 TD on kick return, 2nd round pick
2014 Bryant, 26 catches 549 yards, 8 TDs, 4th round pick
2009 Wallace 39 catches 756 yards, 6 TDs, 3rd round pick

I would easily take any of those rookie WRs production over what Bryant did for us last season. The Steelers could easily draft a WR in round 2 or 3 this year and could produce pretty well with Ben and the offense and supporting cast. I hear that this WR class is weak, but I don't really believe that. At the top, in round 1, yeah, you don't want to spend a pick, but in rounds 2 and 3? Plenty of Steeler type of WRs. Again, I can easily see the Steelers drafting a WR in round 2 or 3 this year, BPA.

OT/G, WR, TE, and RB. Those are 4 positions that could sway the Steelers to spending a pick in rounds 1-3.

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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:39 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Yeah, but think about what you just said-- which defense in the NFL can look good after losing Troy or Shazier or Luke Kuechly or their outlier star? I think it just revealed how good Troy or Shazier was, for all their faults.

They didn't give up 40 to Blake Bortles... they got destroyed in the run game because 2/3 of the starting DL was playing hurt and Sean Spence was starting at ILB and they got freight trained in the run game. They need to greatly improve Safety and Mack ILB depth and with even a plus starter at ILB and an average starter at the two safety spots, they'll be a top 10 defense. Says more about the state of the NFL than that they'll be objectively great... but the state of the league is what it is. Look at the postseason that just happened. Some of the best defenses in the league were in that tournament and everybody got toasted at least once.

I'm sorry perhaps I read the scoreboard incorrectly. What was the final score at the end of the divisional game? That was after getting their asses kicked by Bortles led Jaguars in the regular season game 30-9. Both At Home! The Bears was the one I forgot about thanks KC. All had the same results from the same terrible defense. Humiliated and embarrassed. Come on B2B you can't word your way around the sad absolute that stares us all in the face everyday. The Bortles led Jaguars kicked the Steelers asses up and down the field in both games In Pittsburgh. The last one was the doosie IMO. You guys want to live in some delusional existence that's your deal I prefer to stay in reality. For the record I used Troy as an example and it wasn't a compliment. At least not to Colbert and Tomlin.

This is what I pictured you looked like reading my post....
Image


I agree Scunge. I forget what thread it was in I posted. I too believe they draft a RB in particular in the their first 3 RND's. I'm thinking second day.


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 Post subject: Re: Martavis Bryant Trade Rumors
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:34 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Run defense was bullshit at the end of last tear, terrible in preseason, awful with Shazier at times, and worse without him. There no coincidence some bad QBs have beaten them— those teams generally pair that meh QB with and OL and run game.

With all that last year, they finished 12th, adjusted for level of competition and how well those teams did vs everyone else.


The D finished the RS 11th Pts/Dr and 10th TO's/Dr

Not what we are accustomed to in Steelers Nation but pretty good and (were) on the rise.

The loss of Shazier changes all that. Unique player, and fit well into what Tomlin/Butler seem to be wanting this defense to morph into for the future.

Not sure where it goes from here. Can Watt develop into a difference maker?


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