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 Post subject: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Look like it's going to be eliminated. Outlaw's reception would have been a catch and touchdown to win the game.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Don’t worry...they’ll come up with some other asinine rule to fuck up... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Now they'll fuck it up in reverse where they start ruling catches that actually don't "survive the ground".

The entire issue with "survive the ground" was simply one of indeterminate continuity....and usually the standard applied was well beyond what people consider a catch

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:58 pm 
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They need to define football move. I like what Bert Emmanuel said for that. If the player is reaching with the ball they have control of it. Otherwise they would not reach.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Yeah, this is going to be interesting. If they go too far the other way, it's not going to be much better than it is now. It could get to the point where it's considered a catch every time a guy touches a ball with two hands. That's an extreme scenario, obviously, but the point is to highlight the question of "How long does a guy to need to have the ball in his hands to have control?".

Some will say "Two feet on the ground, ball in hands = catch". Which is fine. But what about when a guy runs a curl, has two feet on the ground as he's waiting for the ball, the ball hits both hands and a defender knocks it out almost immediately afterwards? That a catch? If not, how long does he need to keep it until it is?

I think the problem is that there will always be a gray area no matter how you define things, and NFL referees are too inept to trust the "best judgement" approach. And replay takes a gray area that might normally be as wide as a ribbon and turns it into the grand canyon.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:31 pm 
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I always thought 2 steps and/or a football move was a pretty good standard....until they got retarded with this "survive the ground" BS

I don't feel like there's ever been a debate in the game thread about whether something SHOULD be a catch or not, but rather what the rules say and what the refs decide.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:45 pm 
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If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, upon further review...

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
I always thought 2 steps and/or a football move was a pretty good standard....until they got retarded with this "survive the ground" BS

I don't feel like there's ever been a debate in the game thread about whether something SHOULD be a catch or not, but rather what the rules say and what the refs decide.



We don't talk much about it because the rules demand such a crazy standard for a catch that they usually are called a catch.

If the standard gets stripped back to where we think it should be, then suddenly the line for what's a catch/not a catch gets much more debatable.

I don't think most people would argue that Jesse James' catch should have been a catch.

But go back to the scenario I mentioned in my last post and it suddenly gets kind of ugly. Because, the thing is, both sides will have a valid point this time. A guy holds onto the ball for a half second before dropping it and you can reasonably make an argument for both sides as to whether it should have been a catch or not. While under last year's rules, the standard was so ridiculous, we'd have called that incomplete and moved on, because there's zero chance of it being counted under that old standard.

And if you want to keep the "football move" aspect of it that's fine, it's perfectly defensible, but it really only moves the line on which the debates are going to lie. Because it's another term you have to define, which will invariably create more gray area.

So, my point is, I'm not at all arguing against revising the rules. There's no doubt that a better solution has to exist. I'm only saying that the debate is never actually going to go away. Hopefully it gets minimized, but it's still going to be there.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:10 pm 
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I think it should be: Two hands on the ball, two feet or a body part inbounds in contact with the ground, and 1 second/beat/long-enough-for-you-to-say-1-thousand before the ball is knocked loose.

Benefit of the doubt to the call on the field, only overturned if freaking obviously, two-drinks-in-a-bar-would-agree, wrong.

If you're an official, it's actually not that hard to imagine counting a beat in your head once ball is caught.

This is pretty close to how the rule was interpreted/enforced as recently as a few years ago.

Calvin Johnson... catch. Dez Bryant... catch. Jesse James... catch. Geo Bernard in playoff game... probably a catch but maybe not. Bert Emmanuel... not a catch. Golden Richards in SB... not a catch. Kelvin Benjamin... probably a catch. Brandin Cooks... a catch.

See how easy?

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:28 pm 
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The easiest rules would be if you have the ball in both hands and can perform any kind of move with it...running a couple of steps...reaching out (and not having it knocked away as you do so)...you have established control and thus it’s a catch.

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Last edited by Jeemie on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:47 pm 
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I've always thought I know a catch when I see it. Especially with freeze frame slow motion - if at that point you have any doubt then it's clearly not a catch.

This all really went askew when they apparently dispensed with the standard of "indisputable" evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:20 pm 
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The Survive the Ground rule was easily the worst rule ever created and stands as a monument to owners Lack of football understanding. It's a shame that the Steelers and Jesse James had to be the last straw.

In my opinion, the original Catch rule from the 70's and 80's is the best. You establish control of the football and you get 2 feet on the ground and it's a catch. They never should have changed it in the first place. The first egregious change was "make a football move".

The reason why they changed it was because sometimes a guy would catch the ball and get 2 feet down and then get it knocked out and it would be called a Fumble. That rubbed some Owner wrong and they started to make a fuss. But according to the original rules, if you establish control of the football and get 2 feet down, and then Lose the football, it's a fumble, as it should be, Deal with it.

Get rid of "make a football move". Go back to Old school football.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:28 pm 
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'70's, 80's, 90's, somehow we knew what a catch was then. Can't we just go back to that?

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:58 pm 
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In the endzone, both feet, knee, elbow, fucking dick down for goodness sake, on the ground for a split second...play dead Fucking touchdown. the exact same way if a runner reaches the ball over the goal line for a split second...touchdown.

Start there...


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Great...all the fuck we need is more illegal contact calls.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... rd-penalty


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:17 pm 
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I've always wanted to see them implement the 15 yards and 1st down instead of the spot foul and 1st down. Manning, Brady, Dalton, Flacco would all have worse QB rankings.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Baltostiller wrote:
In the endzone, both feet, knee, elbow, fucking dick down for goodness sake, on the ground for a split second...play dead Fucking touchdown. the exact same way if a runner reaches the ball over the goal line for a split second...touchdown.

Start there...


They have always ruled this way (except against the Pats ;) ) There are lots of plays where the WR catches the ball and get 2 feet down in the EZ then has the ball slapped away and it is called a TD.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I've always wanted to see them implement the 15 yards and 1st down instead of the spot foul and 1st down. Manning, Brady, Dalton, Flacco would all have worse QB rankings.... :lol:

...and the Rats would have one less Lombardi.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Fix the rule now after it fucked us. Figures


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:35 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I've always wanted to see them implement the 15 yards and 1st down instead of the spot foul and 1st down. Manning, Brady, Dalton, Flacco would all have worse QB rankings.... :lol:

You know which QB led the NFL in DPI yards last year?

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:43 am 
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Per game, it looks like Minnesota, with mostly Case Keenum as the leader, but Houston's QBs piled together some impressive numbers as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:50 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Don’t worry...they’ll come up with some other asinine rule to fuck up... :roll:


It won't matter, there's only one solution: A CATCH IS A NON-REVIEWABLE JUDGMENT CALL, as long as there is bullshit replay, some asshole Al Riveron type will notice some other reason to micromanage a situation and again back to square one.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:53 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
'70's, 80's, 90's, somehow we knew what a catch was then. Can't we just go back to that?


Exactly! FUCK REPLAY! Make the game a JOY again.


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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Don’t worry...they’ll come up with some other asinine rule to fuck up... :roll:


It won't matter, there's only one solution: A CATCH IS A NON-REVIEWABLE JUDGMENT CALL, as long as there is bullshit replay, some asshole Al Riveron type will notice some other reason to micromanage a situation and again back to square one.



They'd have to do away with the 10 camera angles and the ultra high def slow mo replays for the viewing audiences. Otherwise there will be non-stop outrage throughout the world of social media after each and every game. It would make the current post-game outrages look like child's play. You'd probably beg for them to bring back replay.

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 Post subject: Re: NFL to nix Going to Ground Rule.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:01 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
You know which QB led the NFL in DPI yards last year?


I think PIT may have led in OPI

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