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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:54 am 
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Good thinking Scunge except you don't pay a guy 15m to sit on the bench. Run his wheels off then goodby.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:57 am 
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Well, I sort of typed that facetiously, I wouldn't really do that, or would I? :lol:

One thing is for certain, as much as I would love to trade Bell to the Raiders, nothing is going to happen if he does not sign the franchise tender pretty early, like in the first week.

You look at Miami with Jarvis Landry. They placed the franchise tag on him, he says he will sign it this week, maybe he already has and a trade will happen. And it probably won't be for two first round picks either. There will be some haggling, some negotiations and it might not even involve a first round pick, might end up being a 2nd rounder. Nothing is written in stone, fans read things like two first rounders and think oh we would never get that for Bell. But you look at Matt Cassel being dealt for only a 2nd rounder, anything is possible.

With Bell though, it is impossible until he signs the tender. Last season he waited until September 1st and he will probably do the same thing this year. It makes no sense. Sign the damn tender and who knows at the start of free agency in March maybe teams will make a play for you. One thing is for certain if you sign your tender in September again, right before the season starts, it will not happen. Teams have already set their rosters, spent their money, etc.

Again, just really stupid thinking by Bell and his agent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:23 am 
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I love Bell but he's a freakin' knucklehead.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:56 am 
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And everyone here refers to Ben as the drama queen. At 5 years in the league he's already beat the odds. IMHO, a RB doesn't deserve $15+Mil per. I understand why he wants the big money. Still wouldn't pay him twice the highest paid RB in the league. The Steelers don't have any leverage in this scenario. Bell has it all.

He had 4 games of more than 100 Yd's rushing and 1 game with more than 100 Yd's receiving last year. He has off the field history with suspensions. He's already had some major knee injuries to boot. There's production there for sure but $15+Mil per production? Not in my humble opinion. http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Le' ... eb4fa35b8b


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:19 am 
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Don’t conflate trading with the non-exclusive tag. If they NE tag Bell and he gets another offer, and the Steelers let him go, that is when we get the two first rounders. A trade is a trade.

From the WAPO:

— An exclusive franchise tag means a team will pay that player no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position, or 120 percent of the player's previous salary, whichever is greater. The player is not allowed to negotiate with other teams.

— A nonexclusive franchise tag involves the same salary offer as an exclusive franchise tag, only the player can negotiate with other teams. The player's current team can match any offer sheet. If the old team declines to match the offer, it gets two first-round picks from the other team as compensation. This is the more commonly used franchise tag.

— By applying the transition tag, a team offers the player a salary that is the average of the top 10 salaries at his position. That player can negotiate with other teams. The player's original team has the right of first refusal to match any offer given to a transition-tagged player by another team. If the original team decides to retain the player, it must agree to the contract terms offered by the other team. If the original team decides not to match the offer and the player leaves, it receives nothing in compensation. A team can use the transition tag only if it hasn't used the franchise tag in a given offseason.

—————————

Maybe they should use the Transition Tag and then just match the offer he gets from another team or not. Then both sides are happy, and he gets paid market value.

The Non-Exclusive tag is expensive as hell for a team...2 first rounders.
The Exclusive tag is 14 million and change this year and then goes to top 5 salaries of the top paid position next year aka franchise QB.

It sounds like Transition tag is the way to go. The Steelers are already offering him a contract with terms other teams would offer. What is the worst that could happen? I guess you could Transition tag him next year and pay the $14 million this year too.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:24 am 
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Like Scunge said, Bell has to sign it in time for the potential trade to unfold. If Bell waits till the start of the new season like last year there will be very little wiggle room with other teams. Bell has all the leverage and he and his agent know this. Steelers are in a bad position.

When inquired about his criteria for assessing that worth, He explained:

Le'Veon Bell has outlined his criteria, regarding his contract demands:

+ He’s putting up more yards per game than any NFL player (his career average of 128.9 yards from scrimmage per game is the best since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger).

+ He plays every down and basically fills the role of three backs.

+ His presence keeps the defense off guard because he can line up anywhere on any play, “causing constant mismatches every single down,” he said.

+ He’s an elite pass-blocker and No. 2 receiver.

+ The Steelers are undefeated when he gets 25 or more carries.

+ His game will age well because he makes plays not solely off athleticism, but “with my mind.”


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:38 am 
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He doesn’t have all the leverage. He played Russian Roulette last year and pulled the trigger and got lucky. He has no clue how many chambers are in the pistol and has no clue how many bullets are in the unknown number of chambers.

Steelers have leverage too.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:12 am 
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The thing about the 'undefeated when he gets more than 25 carries' is: it totally depends on when those 25 carries come. Todd Haley would just put it on a checklist, like, if you hand it to Bell the first 25 plays of the game, we'll win.

This offense was so, so much better when they utilized Bell in more favorable situations, rather than running the wheels off into stacks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:20 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Hinestuff wrote:
100%

He's so selfish I can't fucking take it anymore.



If he holds out again and takes 3-4 games to get up to speed, then I'll revise my opinion.

However he's doing exactly what I think every player in his situation should. He's staring at $26.5M for 2 years when top RB's were getting $8M per year.

Sure, I'd respect him a lot more if he just said he's taking the tag because it's just too much money to turn down, and then see what FA holds. Don't care for all the posturing and ridiculous $15M a year to be paid like a RB and #2 receiver. No idea if he has a screw loose or just very calculating.


I agree with what he's doing, I'd definitely do it too, I put MYSELF above my employer. On the other hand, if I'm the team, and he refuses to sign the tag, I FUCK HIM OVER call his bluff, make him retire hurt his career on purpose by forcing him to lose a year in his prime and not let him leave for another team. Like I would of fucked over Harrison and done something to not let him leave for the Patriots and deactivate him basically a fuck you to ruin the end of his career. Steelers are too nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Seems to me bell is simply risking guaranteed new contract money against the much higher pay under a franchise tag. Like cousins - if he stays healthy - he makes much more money.
So he takes the tags, makes more, doesn’t sign and skips camp to maximize chances to stay healthy. And not signing limits what can happen - as he doesn’t want to be traded. He wants the tags

It’s a gamble of health/little money versus extra 10-20m over his career.

My issue with the tactic from Steelers view is he must be taking steps to avoid In season injuries which means lighter running, less prep and avoiding game time for any injury concern

Dude must be pretty confident he can avoid serious injury


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:30 pm 
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And again the best way to get leverage back for the Steelers is to draft a RB high, 1st or 2nd round in the 2018 draft.

See, I am not content to just keep the band together for just this year and win a Super Bowl for just this year. If Ben wants to play another 3 years or more, then wouldn't it be better to spend a high pick on a RB this year who will be with Ben for the next 3,4 years until Ben retires? Bell is only going to be here for this season in all likelihood. I want multiple chances at the Super Bowl, not just one shot.

If the Steelers draft a RB high, then the power shifts from Bell and is back with the Steelers plain and simple. At that point, Bell holding out makes no sense, he would sign his franchise tender in a hurry. Oh, he could try and hold out but that rookie RB is getting reps and getting more comfortable as training camp and as the preseason games roll on. And then Bell would have to fear that the Steelers might just rescind the franchise tag like Carolina did with Josh Norman. If that happened closer to the start of the season what teams are going to have the money to sign Bell to the contract that he is looking for?

And if they drafted a RB high in the draft and franchised Bell it isn't like they still can't swing a trade. I will gladly take draft picks for Bell in the 2019 draft, a year later, after all, the comp pick we might get for Bell would be in 2020 anyway.

Furthermore, if they drafted a RB high and kept Bell on the franchise tag, great. We have depth and a great 1-2 punch, not an issue at all but a great luxury that could pay dividends for a team looking to win a Super Bowl. Imagine having Bell and then having a faster RB with more long speed who can break a 50 yard TD run or catch, who can help as a kick returner. Then you also have a rookie RB with a year under his belt ready to be the full time starter for 2019 as Bell leaves via free agency. Not really seeing the downside to it, seems to be a win win proposition anyway you look at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Quote:
Wil Masisak
@AccidentalZen
Replying to @BassAnonymous @caorfdz and 2 others

@DeAngeloRB in 15G as a PIT starter:
293 att for 1230 yds 13TD 4.2 YPC
78 tgt 61 catches for 521 4TD
Steelers 11-4

LB career stats @15G rate:
297 att for 1292 8 TD 4.3 YPC
96 tgt 76 catches for 644 2TD
Steelers 10-5

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:44 pm 
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If I were the FO, I would ask Bell to come in and sit down for a talk. I would tell him frankly that he's fucking nut if he thinks the Steelers are going to pay him that kind of dough. Tell him to sign his tender and be traded to a team willing to pay that kind of money or take less and play for the Steelers. He keeps saying he wants to be a Steeler for life to put his statement to the test. I would offer him no more than 10 mill/year. that makes him the highest paid RB by 2 mill. If he doesn't want to do either of those options, slap a Transition tag on him (if they can), and tell him to find a team willing to pay his asking price, then the Steelers will decide his future with the team. Good luck and have a nice day! Then walk out of the room. Ball is solely in his court.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
And again the best way to get leverage back for the Steelers is to draft a RB high, 1st or 2nd round in the 2018 draft.

See, I am not content to just keep the band together for just this year and win a Super Bowl for just this year. If Ben wants to play another 3 years or more, then wouldn't it be better to spend a high pick on a RB this year who will be with Ben for the next 3,4 years until Ben retires? Bell is only going to be here for this season in all likelihood. I want multiple chances at the Super Bowl, not just one shot.

If the Steelers draft a RB high, then the power shifts from Bell and is back with the Steelers plain and simple. At that point, Bell holding out makes no sense, he would sign his franchise tender in a hurry. Oh, he could try and hold out but that rookie RB is getting reps and getting more comfortable as training camp and as the preseason games roll on. And then Bell would have to fear that the Steelers might just rescind the franchise tag like Carolina did with Josh Norman. If that happened closer to the start of the season what teams are going to have the money to sign Bell to the contract that he is looking for?

And if they drafted a RB high in the draft and franchised Bell it isn't like they still can't swing a trade. I will gladly take draft picks for Bell in the 2019 draft, a year later, after all, the comp pick we might get for Bell would be in 2020 anyway.

Furthermore, if they drafted a RB high and kept Bell on the franchise tag, great. We have depth and a great 1-2 punch, not an issue at all but a great luxury that could pay dividends for a team looking to win a Super Bowl. Imagine having Bell and then having a faster RB with more long speed who can break a 50 yard TD run or catch, who can help as a kick returner. Then you also have a rookie RB with a year under his belt ready to be the full time starter for 2019 as Bell leaves via free agency. Not really seeing the downside to it, seems to be a win win proposition anyway you look at it.


I think the way they are looking at this is that after restructures, they can still afford Bell at the tag rate and still go out and sign the players they want to sign. They don't particularly like the backs that will be available to them this year as players better than Bell in 2018.

I think a back gets drafted, but not in the first. Sony Michel is the only one I can see offering a similar skillset, and he wont be battle tested in cold weather, NFL blitz pickup, and ball security. One more year of Bell then figure it out in the draft next year when the only other player they will need to replace is Bryant and mayyybe Dupree. Easy enough to manage assuming no major injuries this year. The team is set up for the very run you are speaking of!

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Kudos B2B for posting that.

I had made a similar breakdown a couple years ago showing that a 33-34 year old Deangelo Williams was pretty damn productive in this offense. I think at the time I had even discovered that the offense was averaging more points per game with Williams starting over Bell at that time.

I see a lot of young DeAngelo Williams types available in this draft, it is ludicrous to think that we should pay Bell $14.5 million.

Of the 3 big names on offense, Ben, Brown and Bell which is the most expendable and easily replaced?

It isn't even close, it is Bell. For all the talk of how transcendent Bell is as a player, this once in a generation player, he is the most easily replaced. I watched Williams, a 33-34 year old Williams, put up not just good numbers but great production when he was filling in for Bell.

If we lost Ben, we are toast, if we lost Brown we are toast, not going to be able to easily replace what they do in this offense. Not as easy to draft a rookie and insert them into the starting lineup. But a rookie RB is different. Running Back is one of the most easiest positions for a rookie to come in and play well, to come in and rush for 1,000 yards.

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Last edited by Scunge on Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm 
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The tag is on and the drama is heating up.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:59 pm 
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He had 749 touches in college. 1626 touches so far in his career in the NFL. Add another 400 for the upcoming season (presumably) and he's had 2,775 touches between college and the NFL. I could be wrong, but that seems like a lot of mileage for a RB who's had two fairly severe leg injuries.

The Steelers might be better served just letting him play out the franchise tag and finding his replacement next year. He's going to be going into his Age 27 season after this year and that's typically when RBs start to decline. It would be a pretty big risk to pay him top dollar with a lot of guaranteed money.

Him and his agent will look pretty dumb if the Free Agency market next year deems he's not even worth what the Steelers initially offered. His sense of self-worth is a bit unrealistic, but I think he'll find that out when he's open for bidding.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
Seems to me bell is simply risking guaranteed new contract money against the much higher pay under a franchise tag.

Dude must be pretty confident he can avoid serious injury


Most guys avoid serious injury, and most SHOULD go the route Bell is going. Take out some insurance, and make several million more playing under the tag.

Bell's situation is a little unique, because if he blows out another knee or runs for less than 4.0 YPC this year then he should have taken the 5/$60M he was offered last year. That is the crazy part - offered 50% more per year than the next highest paid RB, and he turned it down only guaranteed to get an extra $2.5M over the 2 years. Maybe he thinks he'll get tagged a 3rd time, but there's no way.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Like I said before, so long as Bell hasn't signed his tender, I'm making a run at Hyde. PIT has been MORE than fair. Screw him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:24 pm 
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TB wrote:
That's a fake account guys. Bell didn't tweet anything about Connor.


Sounds like Martavis may have made the fake Bell account....... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


Insurance, and probably Colbert hoping Tomlin/Haley wouldn't just run the wheels off of Bell. We take a RB in the first 3 rounds and they should be pulling Bell's tag immediately after the pick.

I wouldn't have tagged Bell. He was underwhelming last year (though still quite good, far more "productive" than "efficient"). I don't see anyone willing to go more than $12M per year PIT was willing to pay, so should have let him field offers. Bell knows behind that OL, playing with Ben and AB, that he could continue putting up HOF numbers....and I'm sure that would factor into his decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


Insurance, and probably Colbert hoping Tomlin/Haley wouldn't just run the wheels off of Bell. We take a RB in the first 3 rounds and they should be pulling Bell's tag immediately after the pick.

I wouldn't have tagged Bell. He was underwhelming last year (though still quite good, far more "productive" than "efficient"). I don't see anyone willing to go more than $12M per year PIT was willing to pay, so should have let him field offers. Bell knows behind that OL, playing with Ben and AB, that he could continue putting up HOF numbers....and I'm sure that would factor into his decision.

No, I think Orange means: why did we take Conner?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
No, I think Orange means: why did we take Conner?



He's a PIT guy....and after 3-4 seasons as a player, he can coach RB's for the next 35 years :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Like I said before, so long as Bell hasn't signed his tender, I'm making a run at Hyde. PIT has been MORE than fair. Screw him.

I agree with the general approach (not a big fan of Hyde though). We'd still get a 2019 comp pick if we pulled the tag on Bell.


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