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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:30 pm 
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And again the best way to get leverage back for the Steelers is to draft a RB high, 1st or 2nd round in the 2018 draft.

See, I am not content to just keep the band together for just this year and win a Super Bowl for just this year. If Ben wants to play another 3 years or more, then wouldn't it be better to spend a high pick on a RB this year who will be with Ben for the next 3,4 years until Ben retires? Bell is only going to be here for this season in all likelihood. I want multiple chances at the Super Bowl, not just one shot.

If the Steelers draft a RB high, then the power shifts from Bell and is back with the Steelers plain and simple. At that point, Bell holding out makes no sense, he would sign his franchise tender in a hurry. Oh, he could try and hold out but that rookie RB is getting reps and getting more comfortable as training camp and as the preseason games roll on. And then Bell would have to fear that the Steelers might just rescind the franchise tag like Carolina did with Josh Norman. If that happened closer to the start of the season what teams are going to have the money to sign Bell to the contract that he is looking for?

And if they drafted a RB high in the draft and franchised Bell it isn't like they still can't swing a trade. I will gladly take draft picks for Bell in the 2019 draft, a year later, after all, the comp pick we might get for Bell would be in 2020 anyway.

Furthermore, if they drafted a RB high and kept Bell on the franchise tag, great. We have depth and a great 1-2 punch, not an issue at all but a great luxury that could pay dividends for a team looking to win a Super Bowl. Imagine having Bell and then having a faster RB with more long speed who can break a 50 yard TD run or catch, who can help as a kick returner. Then you also have a rookie RB with a year under his belt ready to be the full time starter for 2019 as Bell leaves via free agency. Not really seeing the downside to it, seems to be a win win proposition anyway you look at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Quote:
Wil Masisak
@AccidentalZen
Replying to @BassAnonymous @caorfdz and 2 others

@DeAngeloRB in 15G as a PIT starter:
293 att for 1230 yds 13TD 4.2 YPC
78 tgt 61 catches for 521 4TD
Steelers 11-4

LB career stats @15G rate:
297 att for 1292 8 TD 4.3 YPC
96 tgt 76 catches for 644 2TD
Steelers 10-5

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:44 pm 
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If I were the FO, I would ask Bell to come in and sit down for a talk. I would tell him frankly that he's fucking nut if he thinks the Steelers are going to pay him that kind of dough. Tell him to sign his tender and be traded to a team willing to pay that kind of money or take less and play for the Steelers. He keeps saying he wants to be a Steeler for life to put his statement to the test. I would offer him no more than 10 mill/year. that makes him the highest paid RB by 2 mill. If he doesn't want to do either of those options, slap a Transition tag on him (if they can), and tell him to find a team willing to pay his asking price, then the Steelers will decide his future with the team. Good luck and have a nice day! Then walk out of the room. Ball is solely in his court.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
And again the best way to get leverage back for the Steelers is to draft a RB high, 1st or 2nd round in the 2018 draft.

See, I am not content to just keep the band together for just this year and win a Super Bowl for just this year. If Ben wants to play another 3 years or more, then wouldn't it be better to spend a high pick on a RB this year who will be with Ben for the next 3,4 years until Ben retires? Bell is only going to be here for this season in all likelihood. I want multiple chances at the Super Bowl, not just one shot.

If the Steelers draft a RB high, then the power shifts from Bell and is back with the Steelers plain and simple. At that point, Bell holding out makes no sense, he would sign his franchise tender in a hurry. Oh, he could try and hold out but that rookie RB is getting reps and getting more comfortable as training camp and as the preseason games roll on. And then Bell would have to fear that the Steelers might just rescind the franchise tag like Carolina did with Josh Norman. If that happened closer to the start of the season what teams are going to have the money to sign Bell to the contract that he is looking for?

And if they drafted a RB high in the draft and franchised Bell it isn't like they still can't swing a trade. I will gladly take draft picks for Bell in the 2019 draft, a year later, after all, the comp pick we might get for Bell would be in 2020 anyway.

Furthermore, if they drafted a RB high and kept Bell on the franchise tag, great. We have depth and a great 1-2 punch, not an issue at all but a great luxury that could pay dividends for a team looking to win a Super Bowl. Imagine having Bell and then having a faster RB with more long speed who can break a 50 yard TD run or catch, who can help as a kick returner. Then you also have a rookie RB with a year under his belt ready to be the full time starter for 2019 as Bell leaves via free agency. Not really seeing the downside to it, seems to be a win win proposition anyway you look at it.


I think the way they are looking at this is that after restructures, they can still afford Bell at the tag rate and still go out and sign the players they want to sign. They don't particularly like the backs that will be available to them this year as players better than Bell in 2018.

I think a back gets drafted, but not in the first. Sony Michel is the only one I can see offering a similar skillset, and he wont be battle tested in cold weather, NFL blitz pickup, and ball security. One more year of Bell then figure it out in the draft next year when the only other player they will need to replace is Bryant and mayyybe Dupree. Easy enough to manage assuming no major injuries this year. The team is set up for the very run you are speaking of!

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Kudos B2B for posting that.

I had made a similar breakdown a couple years ago showing that a 33-34 year old Deangelo Williams was pretty damn productive in this offense. I think at the time I had even discovered that the offense was averaging more points per game with Williams starting over Bell at that time.

I see a lot of young DeAngelo Williams types available in this draft, it is ludicrous to think that we should pay Bell $14.5 million.

Of the 3 big names on offense, Ben, Brown and Bell which is the most expendable and easily replaced?

It isn't even close, it is Bell. For all the talk of how transcendent Bell is as a player, this once in a generation player, he is the most easily replaced. I watched Williams, a 33-34 year old Williams, put up not just good numbers but great production when he was filling in for Bell.

If we lost Ben, we are toast, if we lost Brown we are toast, not going to be able to easily replace what they do in this offense. Not as easy to draft a rookie and insert them into the starting lineup. But a rookie RB is different. Running Back is one of the most easiest positions for a rookie to come in and play well, to come in and rush for 1,000 yards.

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Last edited by Scunge on Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm 
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The tag is on and the drama is heating up.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:59 pm 
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He had 749 touches in college. 1626 touches so far in his career in the NFL. Add another 400 for the upcoming season (presumably) and he's had 2,775 touches between college and the NFL. I could be wrong, but that seems like a lot of mileage for a RB who's had two fairly severe leg injuries.

The Steelers might be better served just letting him play out the franchise tag and finding his replacement next year. He's going to be going into his Age 27 season after this year and that's typically when RBs start to decline. It would be a pretty big risk to pay him top dollar with a lot of guaranteed money.

Him and his agent will look pretty dumb if the Free Agency market next year deems he's not even worth what the Steelers initially offered. His sense of self-worth is a bit unrealistic, but I think he'll find that out when he's open for bidding.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
Seems to me bell is simply risking guaranteed new contract money against the much higher pay under a franchise tag.

Dude must be pretty confident he can avoid serious injury


Most guys avoid serious injury, and most SHOULD go the route Bell is going. Take out some insurance, and make several million more playing under the tag.

Bell's situation is a little unique, because if he blows out another knee or runs for less than 4.0 YPC this year then he should have taken the 5/$60M he was offered last year. That is the crazy part - offered 50% more per year than the next highest paid RB, and he turned it down only guaranteed to get an extra $2.5M over the 2 years. Maybe he thinks he'll get tagged a 3rd time, but there's no way.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Like I said before, so long as Bell hasn't signed his tender, I'm making a run at Hyde. PIT has been MORE than fair. Screw him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:24 pm 
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TB wrote:
That's a fake account guys. Bell didn't tweet anything about Connor.


Sounds like Martavis may have made the fake Bell account....... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


Insurance, and probably Colbert hoping Tomlin/Haley wouldn't just run the wheels off of Bell. We take a RB in the first 3 rounds and they should be pulling Bell's tag immediately after the pick.

I wouldn't have tagged Bell. He was underwhelming last year (though still quite good, far more "productive" than "efficient"). I don't see anyone willing to go more than $12M per year PIT was willing to pay, so should have let him field offers. Bell knows behind that OL, playing with Ben and AB, that he could continue putting up HOF numbers....and I'm sure that would factor into his decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
Why did we pick James Conner in the 3rd? Can someone remind me?


Insurance, and probably Colbert hoping Tomlin/Haley wouldn't just run the wheels off of Bell. We take a RB in the first 3 rounds and they should be pulling Bell's tag immediately after the pick.

I wouldn't have tagged Bell. He was underwhelming last year (though still quite good, far more "productive" than "efficient"). I don't see anyone willing to go more than $12M per year PIT was willing to pay, so should have let him field offers. Bell knows behind that OL, playing with Ben and AB, that he could continue putting up HOF numbers....and I'm sure that would factor into his decision.

No, I think Orange means: why did we take Conner?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
No, I think Orange means: why did we take Conner?



He's a PIT guy....and after 3-4 seasons as a player, he can coach RB's for the next 35 years :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Like I said before, so long as Bell hasn't signed his tender, I'm making a run at Hyde. PIT has been MORE than fair. Screw him.

I agree with the general approach (not a big fan of Hyde though). We'd still get a 2019 comp pick if we pulled the tag on Bell.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
No, I think Orange means: why did we take Conner?



He's a PIT guy....and after 3-4 seasons as a player, he can coach RB's for the next 35 years :lol:


Haha


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Has anyone calculated Bell’s YPC if you take away his long runs?

Oh yeah. Never mind. There aren’t any long runs.

So hard to find a RB to win a SB with.....guys like FWP don’t come along every day.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:05 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Oh yeah. Never mind. There aren’t any long runs.


To be honest, I've never been in love with the home-run hitter at RB. Not in today's NFL. I want a guy who consistently gets positive yards and moves the chains. That IS Bell. He gets the tough yards and short yards, and has a bit of a nose for the EZ.

So I value him more than his YPC, but that's how guys get paid. But when you consider his OL, and Ben and AB....then the YPC starts to look really pedestrian, even considering he's not a guy to break off huge runs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Bell is correct in that he is a 3 down back that is a very good pass blocker and can line up in various positions.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Oh yeah. Never mind. There aren’t any long runs.


To be honest, I've never been in love with the home-run hitter at RB. Not in today's NFL. I want a guy who consistently gets positive yards and moves the chains. That IS Bell. He gets the tough yards and short yards, and has a bit of a nose for the EZ.

So I value him more than his YPC, but that's how guys get paid. But when you consider his OL, and Ben and AB....then the YPC starts to look really pedestrian, even considering he's not a guy to break off huge runs.


Gurley is a better RB than Bell and can take it to the house from anywhere on the field

Elliott can take it to the house from anywhere

Hunt...Kamara...etc

I like HR hitters w power

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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:42 pm 
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If his value is such, and he's filling all those positions, what happens when he gets hurt? Too many eggs in one basket. I love watching him, but I don't see 15+M per year...


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Oh yeah. Never mind. There aren’t any long runs.


To be honest, I've never been in love with the home-run hitter at RB. Not in today's NFL. I want a guy who consistently gets positive yards and moves the chains. That IS Bell. He gets the tough yards and short yards, and has a bit of a nose for the EZ.

So I value him more than his YPC, but that's how guys get paid. But when you consider his OL, and Ben and AB....then the YPC starts to look really pedestrian, even considering he's not a guy to break off huge runs.


Really?

I’ll take AP in his prime punishing defenders and ALSO making huge plays any day of the fucking week. Bell just isn’t the game changer e1 thinks he is, sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:43 pm 
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If the Steelers didn’t tag Bell, what would he get on the open market? I can’t see anyone me giving him $14 million per year. If they tag him and he hits the market next year, he’ll be late 20’s and get less. The guy is playing a game of chicken he can’t win.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:12 pm 
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I agree.

Almost want to see the Steelers use the Transition Tag to see what he is really worth. The Non-Exclusive tag makes it too expensive for teams to make Bell an offer, and the Transition Tag may tell Bell and his agent what he is really worth. I almost feel like the Transition Tag would save the Steelers money, time and hassle and they would end up keeping him and Bell would have a decent contract and know his worth. Win win. To SP’s point, I just don’t see teams offering Bell this Franchise Tag money. Of course we could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell to be tagged tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:39 pm 
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SP wrote:
If the Steelers didn’t tag Bell, what would he get on the open market? I can’t see anyone me giving him $14 million per year. If they tag him and he hits the market next year, he’ll be late 20’s and get less. The guy is playing a game of chicken he can’t win.


Every year, there are incredibly stupid teams that overpay for players they shouldn't.

I think we'd all be shocked at the money Bell would get from some stupid team.

Zero doubt in my mind he'd get close to what he wants from somebody.

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