It is currently Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:55 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 206 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:51 pm
Posts: 1222
Havoc wrote:
fortythree wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'll add this...

We had a decade of historically great defense that started pre Tomlin. That machine was already in place and it was masterminded by Lebeau.

The offense under Tomlin has never been one of the very best in the league.


So the last four seasons when the offense was Top 10 in points scored never happened?


Steelers were at the very top of the league in defense (at times) for a decade along with the Ravens

This offense has never been one of the top 2 offenses in the league under Tomlin. We dominated the league on defense under the mastermind Lebeau. This offense although very good has never dominated the league like say the Falcons the year they made it to the SB.

If we had the best offense or one of the top 2 offenses in the league under Tomlin, that might have been enough to get us to another SB even if the defense was lacking.


The offense certainly has never been consistent enough to carry the team in the playoffs or against good teams like the defense was for so long. The one constant is a top 5 qb. You should always be at least decent with a top 5 qb in this league.

_________________
Howard Griffith had to resort to chop-blocking him during the 1997 AFC Championship Game. An incredulous Kirkland asked “Why do you have to use cheap tactics like chop-blocking?” Griffith replied by asking, “Why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:28 pm
Posts: 4260
StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Is it time for a Any Tomlin Defenders Left? thread?


I am waiting for a certain dick weed to accuse all of you for being racists for wanting Fraudlin fired...


I think STD is still banned and hasn't come up with a new moniker yet.

_________________
Because Tomlin.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:58 pm
Posts: 6898
Obviously wrote:
StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Is it time for a Any Tomlin Defenders Left? thread?


I am waiting for a certain dick weed to accuse all of you for being racists for wanting Fraudlin fired...


I think STD is still banned and hasn't come up with a new moniker yet.

Are you a dog person?

_________________
"They're standing around, Butz!" - Kevin O'Shea


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 11336
fortythree wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'll add this...

We had a decade of historically great defense that started pre Tomlin. That machine was already in place and it was masterminded by Lebeau.

The offense under Tomlin has never been one of the very best in the league.


So the last four seasons when the offense was Top 10 in points scored never happened?


You're excited about top 10 in the league when, for the last several years we have trotted out a CERTAIN first ballot Hall of Famer at QB, a WR some are calling the BEST EVER and who is clearly also on his way to the Hall of Fame and a RB who is known as the best in the entire league (not only as an amazing RB, also as a very dangerous receiver).

You're gonna be excited about a few top 10 finishes with that group?

_________________
86n96 wrote:
Been checked to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm
Posts: 4169
I wonder how many times a team has finished among the tops in the league offensively and then failed to score a single TD in a postseason game.

I’d bet not many.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:28 pm
Posts: 4260
Jobus Rum wrote:
Obviously wrote:

I think STD is still banned and hasn't come up with a new moniker yet.

Are you a dog person?


I've owned a dog only once. Fuck cats.

_________________
Because Tomlin.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
KC wrote:
fortythree wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'll add this...

We had a decade of historically great defense that started pre Tomlin. That machine was already in place and it was masterminded by Lebeau.

The offense under Tomlin has never been one of the very best in the league.


So the last four seasons when the offense was Top 10 in points scored never happened?


You're excited about top 10 in the league when, for the last several years we have trotted out a CERTAIN first ballot Hall of Famer at QB, a WR some are calling the BEST EVER and who is clearly also on his way to the Hall of Fame and a RB who is known as the best in the entire league (not only as an amazing RB, also as a very dangerous receiver).

You're gonna be excited about a few top 10 finishes with that group?


That's moving the goalposts. My personal opinion on anything is irrelevant. Havoc said the offense had never been one of the very best in the league. I pointed out why that is wrong.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 11336
fortythree wrote:
That's moving the goalposts. My personal opinion on anything is irrelevant. Havoc said the offense had never been one of the very best in the league. I pointed out why that is wrong.


Oh, okay.

:roll:

_________________
86n96 wrote:
Been checked to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:47 am
Posts: 4254
fortythree wrote:
KC wrote:
fortythree wrote:
So the last four seasons when the offense was Top 10 in points scored never happened?


You're excited about top 10 in the league when, for the last several years we have trotted out a CERTAIN first ballot Hall of Famer at QB, a WR some are calling the BEST EVER and who is clearly also on his way to the Hall of Fame and a RB who is known as the best in the entire league (not only as an amazing RB, also as a very dangerous receiver).

You're gonna be excited about a few top 10 finishes with that group?


That's moving the goalposts. My personal opinion on anything is irrelevant. Havoc said the offense had never been one of the very best in the league. I pointed out why that is wrong.


Claiming victory does not equal having victory. The only thing you've shown is your agenda.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
Havoc wrote:
Claiming victory does not equal having victory. The only thing you've shown is your agenda.


Lying about never having a top offense isn't showing an agenda?

I don't have an agenda. I don't think Tomlin deserves to have a job for life but I also don't go out of my way to find reasons to blame Tomlin for everything like so many here do.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 2222
I don't know what the stats are, but top 10 isn't one of the best in the league. It is basically top 1/3.

I know 43 likes to present himself, smugly, as the responsible person in the room. If he can't see the faults of Tomlin and understand why that makes many want to move on, that tells you something about 43. If he does see it, but likes to smugly laugh at people instead of making an argument, well...that shows something about 43 as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
Zeke5123 wrote:
I don't know what the stats are, but top 10 isn't one of the best in the league. It is basically top 1/3.

I know 43 likes to present himself, smugly, as the responsible person in the room. If he can't see the faults of Tomlin and understand why that makes many want to move on, that tells you something about 43. If he does see it, but likes to smugly laugh at people instead of making an argument, well...that shows something about 43 as well.


How is Top 10 not one of the best? I realize it's arguing semantics but where is the cutoff then? Is it just placed where ever the person making the point can use it to be correct?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4372
KC wrote:
fortythree wrote:
Havoc wrote:
I'll add this...

We had a decade of historically great defense that started pre Tomlin. That machine was already in place and it was masterminded by Lebeau.

The offense under Tomlin has never been one of the very best in the league.


So the last four seasons when the offense was Top 10 in points scored never happened?


You're excited about top 10 in the league when, for the last several years we have trotted out a CERTAIN first ballot Hall of Famer at QB, a WR some are calling the BEST EVER and who is clearly also on his way to the Hall of Fame and a RB who is known as the best in the entire league (not only as an amazing RB, also as a very dangerous receiver).

You're gonna be excited about a few top 10 finishes with that group?


yea, "top 10" with:
HOF QB
HOF RB
HOF WR
HOF Center

fucking joke-- this team should be a top 3 offense every year with this talent.

Tomlin's one super bowl win came with almost all Cowher players, and definitely all the player-leaders were drafted by Cowher.

It's plain and simple - Tomlin has been riding the coattails of a HOF QB -- Tomlin was blessed with inheriting a HOF QB when he was hired, and he's has been able to turn that into a record of "no losing seasons". When Ben retires, Tomlin will follow immediately. He is very savvy with regard to his career, that's for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
steel wrote:
Tomlin's one super bowl win came with almost all Cowher players, and definitely all the player-leaders were drafted by Cowher.


Colbert's players.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:43 pm
Posts: 4147
Tomlin would be nothing without Ben as his QB and Tomlin does not learn from his mistakes and gets out coached. But he going to have a job for as long as he wants it so all this tomlin fired talk is a waste of time


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
steelmann58 wrote:
Tomlin would be nothing without Ben as his QB and Tomlin does not learn from his mistakes and gets out coached. But he going to have a job for as long as he wants it so all this tomlin fired talk is a waste of time


Do you actually think "wouldn't be successful without a franchise QB" is a knock on a coach?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 11333
fortythree wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
Tomlin would be nothing without Ben as his QB and Tomlin does not learn from his mistakes and gets out coached. But he going to have a job for as long as he wants it so all this tomlin fired talk is a waste of time


Do you actually think "wouldn't be successful without a franchise QB" is a knock on a coach?


This is your standard reply to people who comment about Tomlin having a HOF QB, which is something different from what we are saying.

"Franchise QB" in today's league is basically 10-15 QB's who are long-term starters. In Tomlin's time, you have basically Peyton, Brady, Brees, Ben and Rodgers as locks for the HOF. But if Tomlin had one of the non-HOF franchise guys, he ain't winning shit. Tomlin wouldn't win a ring with Eli, or Flacco, or Russell Wilson, or Nick Foles....

So, no, Tomlin is not a top-10 HC in this league, and we'll see that soon enough after Ben hangs 'em up.

_________________
------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4372
fortythree wrote:
steel wrote:
Tomlin's one super bowl win came with almost all Cowher players, and definitely all the player-leaders were drafted by Cowher.


Colbert's players.


hahahahah

You still think the GM in Pgh has more power than the HEAD COACH?

Go ask Tom Donohoe

You're probably not old enough to remember him.

The Rooneys laid down the law awhile ago -- HC > GM when it comes to choosing players.

Cowher's players -- Donohoe/Colbert worked for Cowher -- Colbert works for Tomlin, not vice versa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:14 pm
Posts: 1921
steel wrote:
The Rooneys laid down the law awhile ago -- HC > GM when it comes to choosing players.


That is bullshit. Colbert wanted to draft Big Ben and Cowher wanted G Shawn Andrews and 'The Rooneys' broke the tie and they went with drafting Ben. To say that Cowher somehow was more responsible for the players that we drafted is just wrong. Cowher was never a Bill Parcels or Belichick, those guys can coach and also are very astute at player evaluation, the draft, etc. Cowher was never in that category.

Also, you look at that 2005 Super Bowl winning team, it was not just all players drafted by Colbert.

Jerome Bettis brought in by trade by Tom Donahoe
Hines Ward drafted by Tom Donahoe
Alan Faneca drafted by Tom Donahoe
Joey Porter drafted by Tom Donahoe
Aaron Smith drafted by Tom Donahoe
DeShea Townsend drafted by Tom Donahoe

You take away those 6 players from that 2005 team, do we make the Super Bowl? Do we make the playoffs?

These arguments of trying to attribute this Super Bowl to this coach or that coach, or this GM to that GM is so pointless, it is more nuanced than that.

_________________
#greendot51


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
steel wrote:
fortythree wrote:
steel wrote:
Tomlin's one super bowl win came with almost all Cowher players, and definitely all the player-leaders were drafted by Cowher.


Colbert's players.


hahahahah

You still think the GM in Pgh has more power than the HEAD COACH?

Go ask Tom Donohoe

You're probably not old enough to remember him.

The Rooneys laid down the law awhile ago -- HC > GM when it comes to choosing players.

Cowher's players -- Donohoe/Colbert worked for Cowher -- Colbert works for Tomlin, not vice versa


Yeah man. Cowher is responsible for Ben being here, huh?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 7617
At this point there's always someone who chimes in with evidence that Cowher did want Ben and that story isn't true. I don't claim to know the truth one way or the other.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
Kodiak wrote:
fortythree wrote:
steelmann58 wrote:
Tomlin would be nothing without Ben as his QB and Tomlin does not learn from his mistakes and gets out coached. But he going to have a job for as long as he wants it so all this tomlin fired talk is a waste of time


Do you actually think "wouldn't be successful without a franchise QB" is a knock on a coach?


This is your standard reply to people who comment about Tomlin having a HOF QB, which is something different from what we are saying.

"Franchise QB" in today's league is basically 10-15 QB's who are long-term starters. In Tomlin's time, you have basically Peyton, Brady, Brees, Ben and Rodgers as locks for the HOF. But if Tomlin had one of the non-HOF franchise guys, he ain't winning shit. Tomlin wouldn't win a ring with Eli, or Flacco, or Russell Wilson, or Nick Foles....


"If Tomlin had a non-HOF franchise guy" is the new "if you take away his long runs..." it's a terrible argument that cannot be proven or disproved. We will never know if he would or wouldn't have.

But to discredit the guy because of that is kind of dumb.

Quote:
So, no, Tomlin is not a top-10 HC in this league


That is absolutely hysterical. Both from a standpoint of the data we have (win-loss record, Super Bowls, etc.) but also because you can't name 10 head coaches better than him. I mean, I'm sure you will list ten or more but you won't be able to make legitimate arguments for them.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:43 pm
Posts: 4147
Well since the Steelers won't fire Tomlin we see what happens when Ben retires.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:26 pm
Posts: 4372
I will explain this more simply for the posters who have Kindergarten-sized minds here:

Steelers Hierarchy:

OWNER

HEAD COACH

GM

when you say this guy or that guy is "colberts guy" or "donohoe's guy" -- it's bullshit. The HC trumps the GM in matters of who is ultimately selected. This fact was proven in the cowher/donohoe power struggle years ago.

And, of course, the Owner trumps every body.

Tomlin won his super bowl primarily with Cowher's guys, period.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fire Tomlin
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:22 pm
Posts: 2409
steel wrote:
I will explain this more simply for the posters who have Kindergarten-sized minds here:

Steelers Hierarchy:

OWNER

HEAD COACH

GM

when you say this guy or that guy is "colberts guy" or "donohoe's guy" -- it's bullshit. The HC trumps the GM in matters of who is ultimately selected. This fact was proven in the cowher/donohoe power struggle years ago.

And, of course, the Owner trumps every body.

Tomlin won his super bowl primarily with Cowher's guys, period.


You can say it all you want but that doesn't make it true.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 206 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group