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 Post subject: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:47 am 
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Here are our current rostered RBs:

33 Alexander, Alvester RB 5-11 213 23 1 Wyoming
26 Bell, Le'Veon RB 6-1 244 21 1 Michigan State
27 Blount, LeGarrette RB 6-0 250 27 5 Oregon
30 Maysonet, Miguel RB 5-10 210 24 1 Stony Brook
38 Poole, Tauren RB 5-10 210 24 2 Tennessee
13 Archer, Dri WR/RB 5-8 173 22 R Kent State

Interesting that Archer is listed as WR/RB. I expect us to carry 3 RBs: Bell, Blount and Archer.

How do you see the carries shaking out? Bell and Blount are similar builds, although I think Blount despite being heavier has more breakaway speed while Bell has more shake. Assume 25 total runs per game. I see Bell getting 12-14 carries, Blount getting 6-8 and Archer 2-4.

I think we may be hard pressed to use Archer as a true RB given his size. He won't be able to pick up the blitz on 3rd down and I wonder if he can run effectively between the tackles. Given that he is listed as a WR I think we'll see him more out of the slot.

One other question is will Bell/Blount be able to operate as a team without ego problems if they have something close to a 50/50 split?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:00 am 
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Blount knew coming in that he's a backup, his goal should be to the #1. Bell knows now there is comp at the position and both should be highly motivated to tote the rock more than the other. I see know reason we cant get over 2200 yds from both.
Archer is a Toy in Haley's Garage, put dude in the slot, the wing, on the left side, the right side, the Wildcat. To be honest we will be a D'Coordinator's. Our Stable is their problem!


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:16 pm 
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If Bell & Blount can avg around 4.5 YPC, it will be a huge win for the O overall. I'm optimistic about a 2nd year Bell, I think his long speed is deceptive & is faster than its perceived. Saw him break away from a DB last year. I think he'll open some eyes.

Hoping, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:23 pm 
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I like the training camp depth guys who will be competing for one potential roster spot more than some of the training camp fodder RBs they've had in recent years. I think they almost have to keep Bell, Blount and (Alexander/Maysonet/Poole) in addition to Archer, but I could see them carrying one of the three on the practice squad in case of an injury to Bell or Blount instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:24 pm 
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I think Leveon Bell is going to be very good in this league.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:35 pm 
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I cant believe that so many still discount Bell. He's a much better football player in all facets than Mendenhall. Vision, ball security, cuts, power, passing game. Mendenhall had more speed but it was rarely seen and when it was it was with him running like he had a loaf of bread in his hand. I think Le' Bell has Muncie, Foreman, Eddie George like production in him. Not HOF but pretty darn good.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:41 pm 
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I absolutely love the backfield this year. I think it will be one of the better units in the NFL.

Still would not be surprised to see LSH brought back before camp for some competition.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:04 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
Here are our current rostered RBs:

33 Alexander, Alvester RB 5-11 213 23 1 Wyoming
26 Bell, Le'Veon RB 6-1 244 21 1 Michigan State
27 Blount, LeGarrette RB 6-0 250 27 5 Oregon
30 Maysonet, Miguel RB 5-10 210 24 1 Stony Brook
38 Poole, Tauren RB 5-10 210 24 2 Tennessee
13 Archer, Dri WR/RB 5-8 173 22 R Kent State

Interesting that Archer is listed as WR/RB. I expect us to carry 3 RBs: Bell, Blount and Archer.

How do you see the carries shaking out? Bell and Blount are similar builds, although I think Blount despite being heavier has more breakaway speed while Bell has more shake. Assume 25 total runs per game. I see Bell getting 12-14 carries, Blount getting 6-8 and Archer 2-4.

I think we may be hard pressed to use Archer as a true RB given his size. He won't be able to pick up the blitz on 3rd down and I wonder if he can run effectively between the tackles. Given that he is listed as a WR I think we'll see him more out of the slot.

One other question is will Bell/Blount be able to operate as a team without ego problems if they have something close to a 50/50 split?


I see Bell getting more than 12-14 carries...I think he averages around 17 or so per game.

I also believe Bell takes a big leap this year and really establishes himself as our go to player.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:10 pm 
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VanWilder wrote:
If Bell & Blount can avg around 4.5 YPC, it will be a huge win for the O overall. I'm optimistic about a 2nd year Bell, I think his long speed is deceptive & is faster than its perceived. Saw him break away from a DB last year. I think he'll open some eyes.

Hoping, anyway.


Only 15 RBs in the entire NFL averaged 4.5 or over last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Here's hoping Le'veon Bell and Wil Johnson stays healthy.

Here's hoping LaGarrette Blount emulates his production in the 2nd half of 2013.

Here's hoping Dri Archer is another Darren Sproles.

Never heard of the other three guys.

If Bell, Blount, Archer and Johnson do what they're supposed to do, your 2014 RBs will take a steaming dump on the chests of your 2013 RBs.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Old Fashioned wrote:
Here's hoping Le'veon Bell and Wil Johnson stays healthy.

Here's hoping LaGarrette Blount emulates his production in the 2nd half of 2013.

Here's hoping Dri Archer is another Darren Sproles.

Never heard of the other three guys.

If Bell, Blount, Archer and Johnson do what they're supposed to do, your 2014 RBs will take a steaming dump on the chests of your 2013 RBs.


Btw OF, try my peaty scotch version of an old fashioned.
1. Muddle (to taste) brown sugar and two black cherries.
2. Add Laphroiag or Ardbeg
3. Couples dashes of the Angustura or, for a real treat, some smoky bitters: http://www.onlybitters.com/bitters-old- ... ters-30ml/
4. Add a giant round ice cube: http://cocktails.about.com/od/mixology/ ... ceball.htm

Put your pinky way out, take a sip, and start feeling like a magnificent bastard.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
If Bell & Blount can avg around 4.5 YPC, it will be a huge win for the O overall. I'm optimistic about a 2nd year Bell, I think his long speed is deceptive & is faster than its perceived. Saw him break away from a DB last year. I think he'll open some eyes.

Hoping, anyway.


Only 15 RBs in the entire NFL averaged 4.5 or over last year.
4 ypc is a lot when it comes with consistency (bettis had some good sub-4.0 seasons. also, some bad ones). if it comes from a 60 yarder sprinkled on top of dozens of 2 yard carries, its a bit less helpful.

if bell gives us 4.0, we'll be fine. I think he'll do better than that tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:32 pm 
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I would describe our top two as big and somewhat plodding for NFL backs. Neither is a real power runner, more nimble. I don't think anyone else on the roster will amount to much running the football, so the top two will have to be utilized perfectly and be more effective than last year in order to be passable.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:33 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I would describe our top two as big and somewhat plodding for NFL backs. Neither is a real power runner, more nimble. I don't think anyone else on the roster will amount to much running the football, so the top two will have to be utilized perfectly and be more effective than last year in order to be passable.


Bell isn't a power back for his size...Blount is. Blount is a bad bad man. He is an intimidator.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
VanWilder wrote:
If Bell & Blount can avg around 4.5 YPC, it will be a huge win for the O overall. I'm optimistic about a 2nd year Bell, I think his long speed is deceptive & is faster than its perceived. Saw him break away from a DB last year. I think he'll open some eyes.

Hoping, anyway.


Only 15 RBs in the entire NFL averaged 4.5 or over last year.


I think he'll establish himself in the top 10, by the end of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:54 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I would describe our top two as big and somewhat plodding for NFL backs. Neither is a real power runner, more nimble. I don't think anyone else on the roster will amount to much running the football, so the top two will have to be utilized perfectly and be more effective than last year in order to be passable.



Those 2 don't have to amount to much. They just have to amount to enough to give options to the real weapon on offense, #7. Helping to extend drives, help put them into manageable situations, and sometimes even create a play or two and that's already immense help to an already formidable weapon.

The theme in 2014 is, stop me if you've heard this before, is about ball distribution. Its not about the Randy ratio or Kobe getting his 40 shots a game. Its about 11 individual moving parts to sum as a whole. It will take a valiant effort by the coaches to create opportunities, keep constant pressure on opponents, and put each player in the best position to succeed but its definitely a feasible formula.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:

Btw OF, try my peaty scotch version of an old fashioned.
1. Muddle (to taste) brown sugar and two black cherries.
2. Add Laphroiag or Ardbeg
3. Couples dashes of the Angustura or, for a real treat, some smoky bitters: http://www.onlybitters.com/bitters-old- ... ters-30ml/
4. Add a giant round ice cube: http://cocktails.about.com/od/mixology/ ... ceball.htm

Put your pinky way out, take a sip, and start feeling like a magnificent bastard.



I read this post, then began to scroll down the page until I saw the pic in your sig line.

fitting

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:08 pm 
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Iron_City wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I would describe our top two as big and somewhat plodding for NFL backs. Neither is a real power runner, more nimble. I don't think anyone else on the roster will amount to much running the football, so the top two will have to be utilized perfectly and be more effective than last year in order to be passable.



Those 2 don't have to amount to much. They just have to amount to enough to give options to the real weapon on offense, #7. Helping to extend drives, help put them into manageable situations, and sometimes even create a play or two and that's already immense help to an already formidable weapon.

The theme in 2014 is, stop me if you've heard this before, is about ball distribution. Its not about the Randy ratio or Kobe getting his 40 shots a game. Its about 11 individual moving parts to sum as a whole. It will take a valiant effort by the coaches to create opportunities, keep constant pressure on opponents, and put each player in the best position to succeed but its definitely a feasible formula.


Yep. Should run like the Spurs offense - any guy on the field can make a play at any time, all orchestrated by #7. Make the defense guard the width and depth of the field. Something will be open.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Iron_City wrote:
Still Lit wrote:

Btw OF, try my peaty scotch version of an old fashioned.
1. Muddle (to taste) brown sugar and two black cherries.
2. Add Laphroiag or Ardbeg
3. Couples dashes of the Angustura or, for a real treat, some smoky bitters: http://www.onlybitters.com/bitters-old- ... ters-30ml/
4. Add a giant round ice cube: http://cocktails.about.com/od/mixology/ ... ceball.htm

Put your pinky way out, take a sip, and start feeling like a magnificent bastard.



I read this post, then began to scroll down the page until I saw the pic in your sig line.

fitting

Image



That girl is just lost in the groovy 45s. I'm sure her consumption is perfectly moderate. Oh wait, there's not a 7" on her record player, is there? :lol: But that scotch based old fashioned is a winner.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:47 pm 
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The thing I like about Bell was his patience waiting for a hole to develop. Mendenhall would just blast into the line and use his spin move to gain 2 yards. If Bell and Blount can consistantly gain 4 yards and avoid the less than 2 yards that have plagued our running game since Parker's second season, our offense will thrive.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:55 pm 
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Iron city. I've heard nothing and seen nothing from the OC that makes me think he thinks the way you do about running game and 7. I'm all for what you're suggesting, although I don't think we have the OL nor blocking from the skill guys to do that.

And, as to Blount-- he may have some power but he's indecisive picking the hole and takes a while to get going. Neither is a short yardage guy and neither is a burner who is a rest to go yard every play. We don't have anyone on roster who fits either description-- this is a glaring weakness. Remember how much trouble we had when short yardage back was lacking? I do.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:40 pm 
I'm guessing there will be two back sets with Archer and I would guess they motion him into the slot some. I could be wrong because the comments I've read suggest they will be treating Archer as just another rb...I just can't fathom him in pass pro though. I see lost yards between the OTs...and likely a short career.

I've got confidence that Bell is at minimum a good rb. Bills game he showed another gear at critical points...I think it was a screen he flashed all pro stuff getting the first down. I saw more of it in goal line...that was a fucking tremor of a hit in goal line vs Baltimore and he missed no starts and wasn't gun shy when he got back. Hard to say about vision because you lose a ton of yards waiting for shit to develop with this Oline. If he get's his hands together...and Wolfly said he is in freaky shape...he is a guy that might take a big jump. I'll admit I preferred Lacey but I was OK with Bell...I think Bell is the more complete player...but the Oline is the problem.

Blount should push Bell for carries. I don't think he will sit happily if things aren't going well. He is going to make the most of his touches....but it's all about the Oline.

I don't really think it's a matter of how well it works. It's going to be a whole bunch or runs and WR screens. I don't think it gets opened up much unless we fall behind...by a bunch. Maybe Haley get's a little leash early on but if we lose it's going ultra conservative quick imo...


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:46 pm 
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You NEED 3 running backs...basically two guys to carry the load and a back-up. NO ONE is giving Will Johnson meaningful carries, not one. And besides being a rookie, Archer can't be expected to handle significant carries and therefore really isn't RB depth.

I expect they'll add a vet RB sometime after first or second cuts. Dri Archer is, truthfully, NEITHER a rb or wr...he's a specialist they'll have to carve out a roster spot for.

I look at it this way....AB, Moore, Wheaton and Bryant...with Archer is 4.5 WR and that might be ok (especially with a Justin Brown on PS). Bell, Blount and Archer is really 2.5 RB, and that's not enough.

They might roll the dice on RB....certainly Blount is also capable of being an every down back, so maybe that changes the dynamics a bit and you take a chance there.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Virginia Steel wrote:
The thing I like about Bell was his patience waiting for a hole to develop.


He is patient, but he also doesn't fart around and get tackled for loss that much. He played behind the same shitty blocking as everyone else, but somehow he usually managed to at least get back close to the LOS. And that's a pretty big deal - 2nd and 12 is passing down whereas 2nd and 10 you really might run it....also maybe you get 3-4 on 1st down, then 2nd and 7 is a lot better than 2nd and 10.

Getting stuffed for no gain running the ball is not good and puts you behind schedule....losing 2-3 yards is almost a disaster. Ultimately that's really been the problem for this offense for years - negative runs and shitty pass pro.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on our RBs?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
You NEED 3 running backs...basically two guys to carry the load and a back-up. NO ONE is giving Will Johnson meaningful carries, not one. And besides being a rookie, Archer can't be expected to handle significant carries and therefore really isn't RB depth.

I expect they'll add a vet RB sometime after first or second cuts. Dri Archer is, truthfully, NEITHER a rb or wr...he's a specialist they'll have to carve out a roster spot for.

I look at it this way....AB, Moore, Wheaton and Bryant...with Archer is 4.5 WR and that might be ok (especially with a Justin Brown on PS). Bell, Blount and Archer is really 2.5 RB, and that's not enough.

They might roll the dice on RB....certainly Blount is also capable of being an every down back, so maybe that changes the dynamics a bit and you take a chance there.

looking back, normally we've game helmeted
starting RB
backup RB
3rd down RB
FB
(sometimes other dude)

I don't think we're going into a game without each of those guys helmeted, and I don't think Archer can do any of those 4 jobs (which puts him in the 'sometimes other dude' 5th rb role). However, I think Bell is both our starting and 3rd down back RB, which changes things; those four jobs are taken by just bell, blount, and johnson. In an emergency, could we survive with Archer at RB? I think so; him blocking seems like fail, but he's definitely going to draw a defender with him when he wanders out of the backfield looking for a pass. I also think 1 TE / 2 RB sets with archer and Johnson aren't unreasonable NFL packages.


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