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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:57 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
Shazier is looking like a classic workout warrior. Fast track speed but poor vision/instincts and no ability to beat blocks means he'll play a lot slower on the field.

Isn't an impact tackler. Wrap and drag from behind is his style.

I hope he proves me wrong.


Assuming he learns to diagnose plays quickly, with his speed I'm betting on lots of tackles.

He can be a special player. The negativity for this guy is brutal.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:01 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
SteelBack wrote:
Shazier is looking like a classic workout warrior. Fast track speed but poor vision/instincts and no ability to beat blocks means he'll play a lot slower on the field.

Isn't an impact tackler. Wrap and drag from behind is his style.

I hope he proves me wrong.


Assuming he learns to diagnose plays quickly, with his speed I'm betting on lots of tackles.

He can be a special player. The negativity for this guy is brutal.


I think he can get a lot of tackles. The question is whether those tackles will be at the LOS or TFL or 5-7 yards down the field. I think he can be a solid player, just not live up to his draft position, which I think was a round too early.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:27 pm 
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I don't watch Ohio State football, so I have no first hand knowledge on Shazier.

But, several of my close friends are die-hard Buckeyes and they tell me Shazier is an "animal". They tell me he is relentless, mean, and extremely talented.

I realize they are bias but they hate the Steelers and they seemed actually annoyed that we graBbed another Buckeye to play with Heyward.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:30 pm 
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steelman65 wrote:
I don't watch Ohio State football, so I have no first hand knowledge on Shazier.

But, several of my close friends are die-hard Buckeyes and they tell me Shazier is an "animal". They tell me he is relentless, mean, and extremely talented.

I realize they are bias but they hate the Steelers and they seemed actually annoyed that we graBbed another Buckeye to play with Heyward.


I suggest you watch for yourself some of his game film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLmhJuHs8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iep9UmzmT7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Po4n2xehbc

Pay attention to his path to the ball and ability to beat blocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Shazier struggled anytime he faced a quality team or opponent.

I had Shazier 96th on my top 100 board...I believe Shazier's fit in the draft is where the Steelers drafted Dri Archer.

I concede another shitty GM like Kevin Colbert would have reached for Shazier

Shazier does not play fast when he is asked to

Take on blocks
Read and React

Despite his timed speed Shazier does not play fast against the run

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:06 pm 
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Serious question. Do teams actively seek out and try to understand the extreme opposing viewpoint on potential draft picks, especially first rounders?

I know FC (now EFCE it appears), Zivco, and many others were highly critical of Shazier before the draft. If I'm part of the brain trust that is an NFL front office and we're vetting these kids who are so important to the future, I would want to seek out every educated opinion within reason that I could. I would have staffers scouring the internet looking for those opinions - especially the ones that differ from our own (many here accuse the Steeler FO of group think). If a staffer brought me an opinion to review that I then determined seemed well researched and valid, I'd invite them in to make their case. Maybe watch some film on the player and discuss what we see.

I realize this may sound funny but I am serious. Do teams do this kind of thing?

Now picture Kevin Colbert in a room having a conversation with Zivco and his Cartman-impersonating-Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter sounding ass :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:05 pm 
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Now picture Kevin Colbert in a room having a conversation with Zivco and his Cartman-impersonating-Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter sounding ass



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2lSDetRrNk

Here is what is funny. On first rounders under Colbert/Tomlin the only real criticism I've had was Mendenhall over Brown and I wanted to trade down and grab Staley in 2007. There were a couple players I had even with Jones last year. Most of the time I've been good with 2 out of 3 on the first three picks and hated most of the rest. This year it's the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
Serious question. Do teams actively seek out and try to understand the extreme opposing viewpoint on potential draft picks, especially first rounders?

I know FC (now EFCE it appears), Zivco, and many others were highly critical of Shazier before the draft. If I'm part of the brain trust that is an NFL front office and we're vetting these kids who are so important to the future, I would want to seek out every educated opinion within reason that I could. I would have staffers scouring the internet looking for those opinions - especially the ones that differ from our own (many here accuse the Steeler FO of group think). If a staffer brought me an opinion to review that I then determined seemed well researched and valid, I'd invite them in to make their case. Maybe watch some film on the player and discuss what we see.

I realize this may sound funny but I am serious. Do teams do this kind of thing?

Now picture Kevin Colbert in a room having a conversation with Zivco and his Cartman-impersonating-Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter sounding ass :lol:


Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:04 pm 
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I'm willing to give the guy a chance. Is this fair? Or should I crucify him before he's taken one NFL snap?


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:05 pm 
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The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:10 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:16 pm 
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The Pierogi wrote:
SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:32 pm 
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The Pierogi wrote:
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Serious question. Do teams actively seek out and try to understand the extreme opposing viewpoint on potential draft picks, especially first rounders?

I know FC (now EFCE it appears), Zivco, and many others were highly critical of Shazier before the draft. If I'm part of the brain trust that is an NFL front office and we're vetting these kids who are so important to the future, I would want to seek out every educated opinion within reason that I could. I would have staffers scouring the internet looking for those opinions - especially the ones that differ from our own (many here accuse the Steeler FO of group think). If a staffer brought me an opinion to review that I then determined seemed well researched and valid, I'd invite them in to make their case. Maybe watch some film on the player and discuss what we see.

I realize this may sound funny but I am serious. Do teams do this kind of thing?

Now picture Kevin Colbert in a room having a conversation with Zivco and his Cartman-impersonating-Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter sounding ass :lol:


Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.

And I don't doubt that this might be how an NFL front office responds. I personally would not be as quick to dismiss the idea.

I could pay six interns a total of say $60K to sift through everything they can find on the internet regarding the players on our top 200 list. Anything they find that looks like it might be worth a damn they run by a junior level scout. That scout then sifts through the shit, if anything is left, he notifies a more senior scout. Process continues on up to Colbert/Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:36 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
SteelBack wrote:

Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.

Really?

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:50 pm 
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[/quote]Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.[/quote]

Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.[/quote]

That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]

Really.

1. factually well-informed, tolerant of alternative opinions, and guided by rational thought

I believe that describes about 85% of the Steelers fan base.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Well I don't know if I'd call 85% of the fan base enlightened, but certainly many here on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:01 pm 
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FC wrote:
Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.[/quote]

Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.[/quote]

That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]

Really.

1. factually well-informed, tolerant of alternative opinions, and guided by rational thought

I believe that describes about 85% of the Steelers fan base.[/quote]
OK then.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Everyone has the right to there opinion.

All we ask Is its expressed in a civilized manner.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:39 pm 
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I like Shazier. I think he's an athlete par excellence, a team leader, extremely coachable, and a high - character, team - first player. He has a nose for the ball. His game has some flaws, but he isn't anywhere near as terrible as he is being made out to be by some.

But I'm a homer, as well.

Thanks, guys for all the work getting the site up and running again.

Steelerfury.com. Like the Terminator. Just keeps coming back.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Zivoc wrote
Quote:
All this TP and LK talk is crazy because RS is very stupid football IQ wise...and you are making assumptions about coverage off of a 40 time...in 13 games last season I think he had 4 passes defensed, zero INTs and two of the PDs were as a pass rusher.


And since I'm the only one who mentioned Kuechly, should I assume your are talking about my comment? If so, I will restate it...

I believe R.S. is KC attempt to duplicate the success of the Panthers with Luke Kuechly.... I do not know if R.S. is half the player LK is.... but I believe that s what the pick is trying to accomplish....

So, if read correctly, nothing at all "crazy" about that statement.


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