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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:10 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:16 pm 
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The Pierogi wrote:
SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.


Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:32 pm 
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The Pierogi wrote:
Y-Town Steel wrote:
Serious question. Do teams actively seek out and try to understand the extreme opposing viewpoint on potential draft picks, especially first rounders?

I know FC (now EFCE it appears), Zivco, and many others were highly critical of Shazier before the draft. If I'm part of the brain trust that is an NFL front office and we're vetting these kids who are so important to the future, I would want to seek out every educated opinion within reason that I could. I would have staffers scouring the internet looking for those opinions - especially the ones that differ from our own (many here accuse the Steeler FO of group think). If a staffer brought me an opinion to review that I then determined seemed well researched and valid, I'd invite them in to make their case. Maybe watch some film on the player and discuss what we see.

I realize this may sound funny but I am serious. Do teams do this kind of thing?

Now picture Kevin Colbert in a room having a conversation with Zivco and his Cartman-impersonating-Dog-the-Bounty-Hunter sounding ass :lol:


Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.

And I don't doubt that this might be how an NFL front office responds. I personally would not be as quick to dismiss the idea.

I could pay six interns a total of say $60K to sift through everything they can find on the internet regarding the players on our top 200 list. Anything they find that looks like it might be worth a damn they run by a junior level scout. That scout then sifts through the shit, if anything is left, he notifies a more senior scout. Process continues on up to Colbert/Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:36 pm 
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SteelBack wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
SteelBack wrote:

Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.


Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.


That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.

Really?

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:50 pm 
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[/quote]Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.[/quote]

Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.[/quote]

That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]

Really.

1. factually well-informed, tolerant of alternative opinions, and guided by rational thought

I believe that describes about 85% of the Steelers fan base.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Well I don't know if I'd call 85% of the fan base enlightened, but certainly many here on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:01 pm 
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FC wrote:
Discounting an opinion just because it is found on the Internet is as foolish as defending one just because it was made by a paid professional.[/quote]

Dumb is dumb on a message board or in the board room. There's just a lot more dumb to go around on the interwebs.[/quote]

That's true. Although to be fair, we have some pretty enlightened folks on this board. And as smart as NFL personnel may be, our particular coaches and management haven't been producing a winning product for several years now.[/quote]
Really?[/quote]

Really.

1. factually well-informed, tolerant of alternative opinions, and guided by rational thought

I believe that describes about 85% of the Steelers fan base.[/quote]
OK then.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Everyone has the right to there opinion.

All we ask Is its expressed in a civilized manner.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
I like Shazier. I think he's an athlete par excellence, a team leader, extremely coachable, and a high - character, team - first player. He has a nose for the ball. His game has some flaws, but he isn't anywhere near as terrible as he is being made out to be by some.

But I'm a homer, as well.

Thanks, guys for all the work getting the site up and running again.

Steelerfury.com. Like the Terminator. Just keeps coming back.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Zivoc wrote
Quote:
All this TP and LK talk is crazy because RS is very stupid football IQ wise...and you are making assumptions about coverage off of a 40 time...in 13 games last season I think he had 4 passes defensed, zero INTs and two of the PDs were as a pass rusher.


And since I'm the only one who mentioned Kuechly, should I assume your are talking about my comment? If so, I will restate it...

I believe R.S. is KC attempt to duplicate the success of the Panthers with Luke Kuechly.... I do not know if R.S. is half the player LK is.... but I believe that s what the pick is trying to accomplish....

So, if read correctly, nothing at all "crazy" about that statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Shazier Scheiße Kopf????

Hope not!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:13 pm 
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The Steelers coaching staff and front office does not care what anyone thinks that does not pay their salary.

To play the Devils advocate... Unfortunately, I am an HVAC guy by trade... NOTHING pisses me off more than a customer who thinks they know what the problem is, or knows somebody, who knows what the problem is. Let me do my fucking job!... If I can't, I will be fired.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:28 pm 
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1 problem...The Steelers don't fire management.

I intentionally have avoided the needless debates this summer and I will continue doing so.

In 6 weeks we will have answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:34 pm 
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StillMadAtSlobber wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
Gee, wow, I'm not sure what Zivco's take on Shazier is, I'm really interested in his take when he re-registers.


I am sure Zivco considers Shazier an exceptional pick with exceptional speed, the ability to skate through traffic while shedding blocks who demonstrates textbook tackling form.


ok here we go

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:35 pm 
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considering the last time they fired management it was the architect of the greatest drafts in NFL history AND his brother, to bot... maybe it's good they don't fire management.

I dunno-- was Donahoe management? That was a good firing.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Flanker wrote:
NOTHING pisses me off more than a customer who thinks they know what the problem is, or knows somebody, who knows what the problem is. Let me do my fucking job!...


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:37 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
considering the last time they fired management it was the architect of the greatest drafts in NFL history AND his brother, to bot... maybe it's good they don't fire management.

I dunno-- was Donahoe management? That was a good firing.


Yup he was Cowher;s grocery clerk.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Flanker wrote:
The Steelers coaching staff and front office does not care what anyone thinks that does not pay their salary.

I hope that is not true. If it is, that's an easy ticket to failure for any business.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:07 pm 
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SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
considering the last time they fired management it was the architect of the greatest drafts in NFL history AND his brother, to bot... maybe it's good they don't fire management.

I dunno-- was Donahoe management? That was a good firing.


Yup he was Cowher;s grocery clerk.


I thought he worked in a bank.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:07 pm 
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Y-Town Steel wrote:
The Pierogi wrote:
Educated opinion... scouring the internet... does not compute.

And I don't doubt that this might be how an NFL front office responds. I personally would not be as quick to dismiss the idea.

I could pay six interns a total of say $60K to sift through everything they can find on the internet regarding the players on our top 200 list. Anything they find that looks like it might be worth a damn they run by a junior level scout. That scout then sifts through the shit, if anything is left, he notifies a more senior scout. Process continues on up to Colbert/Tomlin.


Ultimately, any internet scouring of opinions on a player would come down to determining the source of those opinions and critiquing that individual's qualifications. I don't really see the benefit to be gained in regards to the top 200. Internet scouring might help turn up a potential UDFA gem from B2B Directional State College of Architectural Design and Underwater Basketweaving, I just don't think it's all that valuable when you're already investing resources in scouting the top 200 prospects. Some armchair NFL scout saying "[First-round prospect] is awful, I wouldn't draft him in the first 100 picks because he's terrible in [aspect of football]. Just watch the [opponent] tape and you'll see for yourself." isn't going to have much sway when multiple members of the staff have already dissected that tape and probably every other game the kid has played.


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