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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:02 am 
I'm not impressed with the success rate of NFL front offices in the draft. I 100% believe there are many "armchair" GMs that could do a better job then many general managers. No bullshit...I've listened to many GMs and many HCs over the years and while it's getting better there are message board guys who I'm sure have a better understanding of things. I haven't researched how true it is but it seems the best teams are the ones that find value in the back end of the draft a few years in a row.

I think very good personnel guys mostly have about a 10 year peak shelf life then it's gone...the great unifying theory of life...if you are really lucky you have "it" for a while mostly when you are under 40 then it's gone. There are exceptions...but I recall reading analysis a couple years back on age and a short peak at the top of a profession and it seems to relate to both science and the arts...perhaps the age of 50 might work better for athletic talent evaluation.

I really doubt there is the consensus within any organization on draft picks many here seem to believe exists. It isn't a democracy. Just consider the clashes in the PS organization over some of the selections in some of the greatest drafts in history. Final board is set by Tomlin/Colbert and everyone gets on board.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:19 am 
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Old Fashioned wrote:
SteelerzEdsaL7 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
considering the last time they fired management it was the architect of the greatest drafts in NFL history AND his brother, to bot... maybe it's good they don't fire management.

I dunno-- was Donahoe management? That was a good firing.


Yup he was Cowher;s grocery clerk.


I thought he worked in a bank.


Alluded to Brando in Apocalypse Now, not Dimitrius the DB

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:16 am 
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Zivco wrote:
I'm not impressed with the success rate of NFL front offices in the draft. I 100% believe there are many "armchair" GMs that could do a better job then many general managers. No bullshit...I've listened to many GMs and many HCs over the years and while it's getting better there are message board guys who I'm sure have a better understanding of things. I haven't researched how true it is but it seems the best teams are the ones that find value in the back end of the draft a few years in a row.

I think very good personnel guys mostly have about a 10 year peak shelf life then it's gone...the great unifying theory of life...if you are really lucky you have "it" for a while mostly when you are under 40 then it's gone. There are exceptions...but I recall reading analysis a couple years back on age and a short peak at the top of a profession and it seems to relate to both science and the arts...perhaps the age of 50 might work better for athletic talent evaluation.

I really doubt there is the consensus within any organization on draft picks many here seem to believe exists. It isn't a democracy. Just consider the clashes in the PS organization over some of the selections in some of the greatest drafts in history. Final board is set by Tomlin/Colbert and everyone gets on board.


Tell me where these armchair GMs would be getting their info and research to do a better job than those actually employed by NFL teams to perform that function.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:23 am 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Tell me where these armchair GMs would be getting their info and research to do a better job than those actually employed by NFL teams to perform that function.


Irrelevant if you dont use your information to make the right decisions.

Regularly, round 1 proves that.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:23 am 
BarryFoster wrote:
Tell me where these armchair GMs would be getting their info and research to do a better job than those actually employed by NFL teams to perform that function.


There is a ton of college footage on the net. Senior Bowl and combine are months of coverage. Pro days are covered down to whether the GF spit or swallowed the previous evening. I think names on lottery balls would work better for the Jags, Skins, Raiders, etc...plenty of examples of non professionals out performing those that are paid in every industry...I would guess everyone who has ever started a successful business have had the same doubts from the "paid professionals", bankers, and the fans of big corporate whores for the homogenization, franchising, and monopolization of all things.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Zivco wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Tell me where these armchair GMs would be getting their info and research to do a better job than those actually employed by NFL teams to perform that function.


There is a ton of college footage on the net. Senior Bowl and combine are months of coverage. Pro days are covered down to whether the GF spit or swallowed the previous evening. I think names on lottery balls would work better for the Jags, Skins, Raiders, etc...plenty of examples of non professionals out performing those that are paid in every industry...I would guess everyone who has ever started a successful business have had the same doubts from the "paid professionals", bankers, and the fans of big corporate whores for the homogenization, franchising, and monopolization of all things.


PS drafted with a blindfold. O pro days? My bad you mean the stage were Shazier showed greater athletic skills than matched/bettered anyone in the entire draft? Shame his production doesnt match the highlight reel olympics in shorts. Yep being top 2 in TFLs in last 2 years what the fuck! If only he looked good in a Saban D and was a captain n stuff. Who knows if he got consistently blown by SEC commentary he might fit the bill. Especially when shown up in big games...like Auburn. :roll: Meet Mr. Zivco, the not only dont I like the draft pick but I'm openly hoping he fails so I can play chest thump on the internet. I dont give a damn what any other posters think of you.

Ive seen enough, I made a concerted effort to avoid the negativity you favored and reasoned it with well he seems a bright lad. You are but you are also agenda driven so much it is chronic. You dont give a toss how this team does you care far more about being able to crow over a pre-disposition advocating team failure. Good for you. In my experience that doesnt make you a fan, it makes you a zealot for brownie points. Ive no doubt you'll respond with the usual word salad drudgery, others will no doubt nod, not I, I prefer my dram and the ignore button.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:21 am 
steelclan wrote:
PS drafted with a blindfold. O pro days? My bad you mean the stage were Shazier showed greater athletic skills than matched/bettered anyone in the entire draft?


I don't know where this shit comes from. I wasn't speaking to e.t.in the quote. As to his workout numbers there were at least a half dozen LBs with better agility and reps numbers...and he didn't participate in the 40..

steelclan wrote:
If only he looked good in a Saban D and was a captain n stuff.


I don't have a clue how you associate me with Alabama players. Mosely is the first Saban player I have advocated to go to the PS. If you think "Saban turns out used up, finished products" I think you're a fucking idiot. Each player is unique.

steelclan wrote:
Especially when shown up in big games...like Auburn.


You really have no fucking clue do you? First, it was a good game vs Mosely. Second, that's a unique offense, it's not going to be evaluated as typical know matter who is playing Auburn.

steelclan wrote:
Meet Mr. Zivco, the not only dont I like the draft pick but I'm openly hoping he fails so I can play chest thump on the internet. I dont give a damn what any other posters think of you.


steelclan wrote:
Ive seen enough


Look I'll bet I've logged more then twice the number of PS games then you have. I don't do victory laps nor do I start or flood threads with my opinions. The only reason I'm taking the time to respond to this is terrier and rat amusement.

steelclan wrote:
You are but you are also agenda driven so much it is chronic. You dont give a toss how this team does you care far more about being able to crow over a pre-disposition advocating team failure.


No agenda. I want to be right. I've not advocated for team failure in any way. I was at Division winner prior to the draft. I've had worst case days that look like 6-10. Right now...8-8...again.

steelclan wrote:
I prefer my dram and the ignore button.


Figured you were umbrellas and fruity skewers...


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:35 am 
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Shazier hasn't played a down and people are up in arms about the pick. People hated the Timmons pick and he has become an elite LB in this league, no matter what you believe or try to overanalyze.

Timmons gets a lot of blame on this site and all his done is shown up and played. Your ILBs are asked to do more than just stop the run these days. I believe that explosive players who can cover that middle of the field like Shazier stop,those crazy RB dump offs and continued TE seam rapings. Speed allows the cross dogs to actually get there. Heck now blitzes can truly come from anywhere. Front 7 looks like it could get our swagger back.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:04 am 
VeritasSteel wrote:
Timmons gets a lot of blame on this site and all his done is shown up and played


I'm not close to Timmons largest critic...but it is ridiculous what we are paying him. He is the largest ILB cap hit in the NFL...and over the last few years we get something like 3.5 sacks, 3 pass defensed, 3 tackles for loss, 2 picks, and inconsistent play vs the run...I think his average PFF rating over the contract is 12 ILB...Can't pay 10 million + for that.

VeritasSteel wrote:
I believe that explosive players who can cover that middle of the field like Shazier stop,those crazy RB dump offs and continued TE seam rapings.


Shaz has one career int at OSU. 4 passes defensed last year. And his angles...even to the flat...are horrible.

VeritasSteel wrote:
. Speed allows the cross dogs to actually get there. Heck now blitzes can truly come from anywhere.


Shaz is not a def win when isolated on a rb in pass pro on the blitz....he often fell down simply by contacting a linemen hip or leg on the blitz.

VeritasSteel wrote:
Front 7 looks like it could get our swagger back.


I don't give a shit about swagger...21 in rush defense and you have some swishy mfers on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazier guy, or not?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:23 pm
Posts: 1876
steelclan wrote:
Zivco wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
Tell me where these armchair GMs would be getting their info and research to do a better job than those actually employed by NFL teams to perform that function.


There is a ton of college footage on the net. Senior Bowl and combine are months of coverage. Pro days are covered down to whether the GF spit or swallowed the previous evening. I think names on lottery balls would work better for the Jags, Skins, Raiders, etc...plenty of examples of non professionals out performing those that are paid in every industry...I would guess everyone who has ever started a successful business have had the same doubts from the "paid professionals", bankers, and the fans of big corporate whores for the homogenization, franchising, and monopolization of all things.


PS drafted with a blindfold. O pro days? My bad you mean the stage were Shazier showed greater athletic skills than matched/bettered anyone in the entire draft? Shame his production doesnt match the highlight reel olympics in shorts. Yep being top 2 in TFLs in last 2 years what the fuck! If only he looked good in a Saban D and was a captain n stuff. Who knows if he got consistently blown by SEC commentary he might fit the bill. Especially when shown up in big games...like Auburn. :roll: Meet Mr. Zivco, the not only dont I like the draft pick but I'm openly hoping he fails so I can play chest thump on the internet. I dont give a damn what any other posters think of you.

Ive seen enough, I made a concerted effort to avoid the negativity you favored and reasoned it with well he seems a bright lad. You are but you are also agenda driven so much it is chronic. You dont give a toss how this team does you care far more about being able to crow over a pre-disposition advocating team failure. Good for you. In my experience that doesnt make you a fan, it makes you a zealot for brownie points. Ive no doubt you'll respond with the usual word salad drudgery, others will no doubt nod, not I, I prefer my dram and the ignore button.


I like this post.

Can we at least give RS a chance before crucifying him? Holy fuck. Was i suprised when the Steelers selected him? Yes. Am i hoping he succeeds? Yes. Some here are openly hoping he fails, which i think is fucked up.


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