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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:21 pm 
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I agree Havoc. The two things that bothers me with Bell: he was so good at not fumbling the first 3 years of his career and he was good at having explosive plays those first two years but those things have changed for the worst.

His first 3 seasons he had 799 combined touches (carries, catches) and he fumbled just one time.

Last season he fumbled 4 times in just 336 combined touches.

The explosive plays, the runs over 20+ yards, over 40+ yards, the catches over 20+ yards, the 40+ yard catches, they are all disappearing.

Bell's best year in 2014 he had 18 plays over 20+ yards, and 5 plays over 40+ yards, and he had his best season scoring TDs with 11.

Now contrast that with last season where he had just 8 plays over 20+ yards, and just 1 play over 40+ yards.
David Johnson last season had 19 plays over 20+ yards and 3 plays over 40+ yards. Bell was able to play at that level of explosiveness back in 2014 but we are getting diminishing returns the past two seasons. Instead of playing like Johnson we are instead starting to have Bell put up Matt Forte type of production, which at the end of the day is not bad, but it isn't something you pay $15 million for either.

Part of me thinks the injuries are taking their toll on him and also that defenses are starting to adjust to his running style, the increased fumbles last season and the diminishing explosive splash plays to me help to prove that.

And to think he wants to carry the ball more and more, no. He needs to carry the ball less and be more effective when he does get the ball. That was not a fresh Marshall Faulk type of RB in those playoff games dazzling everyone with his receiving ability. He only had 4 catches for 3 yards in those playoff games last season. No, he was more of a plodder, a mudder, more Jerome Bettis like, and in the end he disappointed and laid an egg against NE just like Bettis. 3 straight years we make the playoffs and 3 straight years Bell makes no difference at all ultimately. There is a moral to the story somewhere in there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:21 am 
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The moral is: don't run the offense through him. Use him as a killer off-speed pitch and you'll get a lot more mileage out of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:32 am 
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When I made that Williams/Bell comparison post I talked of how the offense actually averaged more points per game with Williams in his starts at RB when he played in place of the injured/suspended Bell. My question is how can that be?

Sometimes you can get so enamored with a player, get so obsessed with feeding him the ball that it can lead you down the wrong path, it can actually limit your offense.

Look we have Bryant back, we have Eli Rogers, we have JuJu, we have Justin Hunter, we traded for Vance McDonald. So, with all of this talent on offense should we expect Antonio Brown to have over 100 receptions and should we expect Bell to catch 100 receptions? If so why? And is that in the best interest for this offense to truly score over 30 points a game?

To me the best offense is one where there is diversification, where the ball is spread around. We have averaged 390 completions over the last 4 seasons. So, again, let us play a game, how would you break down the completions? Meaning who gets what?

There are some fans that would love to see Brown achieve the NFL record for receptions and beat Marvin Harrison's 144. Fine, subtract 145 from 390, that leaves you 245. Then there are fans that are so in love with Bell and his receiving ability and want to see him catch 100, he was on pace for 100 last season and did have 75 in 12 games. So, subtract 100 from that 245. That leaves you with 145 completions to spread out between Bryant, Rogers, JuJu, Hunter, McDonald, James, Grimble, etc, which when you think about it is pretty small amount of completions for the rest of the team.

Wouldn't it be better to have an offense that spreads it around more? What if the Steelers actually do get the TEs involved more? What if Vance McDonald has 50 receptions? What if the TEs as a group get 80 completions this year?

What if Bryant plays in all 16 games and has 65 receptions? What if Rogers/JuJu combine for 50 receptions? What if Hunter has 20 catches as the 4th WR/Red zone specialist?

I don't think any of that is unreasonable but look at how I have already got the TEs with 80 completions and the WRs (minus Brown) with 135 completions. That is already 215 completions which if you subtract from 390, leaves only 175 completions. You have to figure that Bey and Connor, Watson would get some token catches here and there so let us give them say a combined 20 catches. That brings the total number of completions that Brown and Bell get to 155. Figure Brown has 85 catches and leads the team and Bell has 70 catches.

My breakdown of a perfect offense that spreads the ball around would look something like this:

Antonio Brown 85 catches
Leveon Bell 70 catches
Martavis Bryant 65 catches
Vance McDonald 50 catches
JuJu 30 catches
Eli Rogers 20 catches
Justin Hunter 20 catches
Grimble 20 catches
James Connor 10 catches
Jesse James 10 catches
Darrius Hayward-Bey 4 catches
Rosie Nix 3 catches
Terrell Watson 3 catches

That adds up to the 390 completions that we have been averaging on offense the last 4 years. The offense would be more dangerous if Brown and Bell are targeted less, fed the ball less and the other players involved more. It is too easy for a defense to shut down one or two players, much harder if you have deep threats like Bryant at WR and McDonald at TE, and then harder still when you are worried about Brown, Bell, Bryant and McDonald and then we can kill you with JuJu or Hunter or Grimble. But it all starts with being brave enough to use all of this new talent, to not just force the ball to Brown and Bell.

If Brown ends the season with over 100 catches and Bell ends the season with 100 receptions I can promise you this offense will have struggled to score points again and is under achieving yet again.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:55 am 
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You gotta compare the different offenses. David Johnson plays in a vertical offense so his catches are more likely to get more yards. I've seen Bell run receiver routes. He is next level. Johnson is comparable but freeman please.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:47 am 
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Has Vance McDonald definitely supplanted James as the starting TE?

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:49 am 
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KC wrote:
Has Vance McDonald definitely supplanted James as the starting TE?


according to the depth chart James is still listed at 1 and McDonald at 2. Which would make sense until he gets more up to speed with the offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:37 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The moral is: don't run the offense through him. Use him as a killer off-speed pitch and you'll get a lot more mileage out of him.


Exactly. Hopefully Haley and Tomlin have finally come to that realization.

Seems to me the more Bell put up big numbers the more & more he became a crutch for the offense.

Almost makes them lazy in their approach. Just give it to Bell. Rinse & repeat.


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 Post subject: Bell VS other RB's
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Guess I should change the title of this thread to Bell vs better RB's?

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:05 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Watch the games. If you dont think Bell is the best RB since at least Faulk you really dont understand football


Ladanian Tomlinson?
Adrian Peterson?

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:14 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
SteelerChef wrote:
Watch the games. If you dont think Bell is the best RB since at least Faulk you really dont understand football


Ladanian Tomlinson?
Adrian Peterson?


There may have been a bit of hyperbole in his statement but the fact that you had to throw out 2 first ballot hall of famers kind of illustrates his point. To me he's in the conversation for the most talented back I've seen since Faulk. I think sometimes coaching fails at getting the absolute most out of his skill set.


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