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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Overpaid...once again, the Steelers bidding against themselves.


I'm not sure, and I'm one of the biggest critics of that. I haven't done a comparison, but the way the cap is going up there are 2-3 guys every year at a position getting "top 3-5 money"....so the 2-3 guys up for a contract every year will get at least a little more than the guys who did their deals 3+ years ago - a guy who might barely be top-10 at his position is going to get top-5 money at the time of his deal.

And Tuitt is one of the more exceptional 3-4 guys capable of consistently collapsing the pocket. So I think this is a pretty fair and reasonable deal.



I agree.
The more I think about it....the more I think Tuitt was a good deal. Probably on the rise as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:20 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
There’s no guarantee beyond year one, which is consistent with all Steelers long-term deals. However, they rarely cut a player who has signed a long-term contract after one year. If they do, Tuitt will have gotten $14 million for one year and an early trip to the open market, thanks to the early trigger on the roster bonus.


That is what I don't get, and IMO the Steelers are dinosaurs when it comes to contract structures:
1) guys are very, very rarely cut after just 1-2 years of a big new deal, ESPECIALLY a C2...why not save a few bucks on the cap long-term giving them guaranteed money you're going to pay anyway, in trade for lower total dollars ? Steelers shy away from large SB (which costs them cap long-term) for some kind of irrational extreme risk aversion.

2) related to the above, the Steelers typically end-up with the same dead cap liabilities, anyway, when they restructure these deals a year or two in to create cap space (some of which they've pissed away because they're afraid of big guarantees).

3) you don't need to be afraid of big guarantees because the really savvy GM's are guaranteeing the first 2-3 years of salary because they KNOW there's a 99.9% chance they are paying the guy at least 3 years. That practice reduces potential dead cap money in yrs 4-6 when a guy actually has a more reasonable chance to be cut or traded.



I think it comes down to one thing for the Steelers and bonuses. Bonuses are cash paid up front 8-) :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:52 pm 
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When you look around the NFL and see so many teams with a lot of money, and yet with very little in 'star' players, that have very little to show in terms of postseason play, well, I think how the Steelers do their contracts is handled pretty well.

Do you want a team that is $40-50 million under the cap, that is always trading for and accumulating draft picks, and yet for all that have no players of note, never win the division or make the playoffs?

I want my team to always be struggling with the salary cap, to always be right up against it, because that to me means they have spent the money, that they are not a cheap franchise that somehow thinks a successful season is how much you are under the cap.

Both the Browns and 49ers are some $60 million under the cap. The Jags are $42 million under the cap. Will any of those teams win 5 games this year?

Tuitt's contract is about what I expected. I thought he would get more than Cam on a per season average. Cam was at $9.8 million and I thought Tuitt would get $11-12 million per season. Anybody paying attention to the recent big contracts would know that the roster bonuses are really something that the Steelers love to do. Heyward got $11 million in rosters bonuses, DeCastro got $10 million. Same now with Tuitt. I bet they did the same thing in the contract they offered Bell but he turned up his nose at it.

I don't think Bell will be in a Steeler uniform next year anyway. That was not going to be a deciding factor on whether or not to pay Tuitt or who much we paid Tuitt. Tuitt is a rising star and he would have easily gotten this and more on the open market.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
roster bonuses are really something that the Steelers love to do. ...I bet they did the same thing in the contract they offered Bell but he turned up his nose at it.


They're not really worth anything - roster bonuses aren't fully guaranteed. I don't know why they are so in love with them because there's truly very little value to the team or player.

That's why Bell could thumb his nose at it - a roster bonus is not guaranteed. You're just taking some of the money due him over 17 weeks of the season and giving it to him in March.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:19 pm 
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According to this site Tuitt stands to make $12Mil per...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-s ... itt-14455/


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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:04 pm 
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He's our best player on the defensive side of the ball. He should be paid as such. The dude is a beast.

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
According to this site Tuitt stands to make $12Mil per...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-s ... itt-14455/


That lines up with the breakout by year you posted. The $11M SB, plus what was already on the books, works out to just over $2.0M a year in pro-rated bonus.

That's really not much in guarantees, and the $24M extra he makes over the next 3 years really works out to $12M each of the next 2, which is exactly the per year average of his deal. So I don't think I would really characterize his deal as "front loaded".

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:59 am 
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If this link is accurate, then Tuitt is now the 4th highest paid 3-4 DE by AVG/YEAR:

https://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

PLAYER AVG/YEAR TOTAL VALUE GUARANTEED

1. Muhammad Wilkerson Jets $17,200,000 $86,000,000 $36,750,000
2. JJ Watt Texans $16,666,667 $100,000,000 $20,876,385
3. Jurrell Casey Titans $15,100,000 $60,400,000 $23,600,000

Heyward WAS 4th...now he's 5th. Heyward went down last year and we didn't miss a beat because Tuitt stepped into the #1 role and was dominant. The whole D improved as the year went on.

Tuitt is 3-4 years younger than everyone ahead of him as well as Heyward. He's a beast against the run...can rush the passer...blue chip player since high school. He's still getting better. On what planet is he worth less than 12 million a season?

Is there a C1 3-4 DE in the league that is 25 or younger that you'd rather have? And if so, will that player be worth less than 12 million per year when you extend them?

FWIW I'd say Watt is undervalued but now that he's coming off two offseason back surgeries, maybe not. 3 defensive tackles are also paid more than him on per year average (substantially so in the case of Suh).

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:27 am 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
If this link is accurate, then Tuitt is now the 4th highest paid 3-4 DE by AVG/YEAR:


not a bad deal at all

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 Post subject: Re: Tuitt 5Y/$60M
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:16 am 
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An edge rusher will take this team to the promised land. Tuitt is a monster and a great teammate, but we need an edge rusher.


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