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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Kodiac your lack of objectivity is pretty evident. Get it Ben is generational and can do no wrong. I agree he can be very good but not nearly as good as you think he is. Right now he is not even top 5 in the NFL


No, I watch other guys. My objectivity is not the issue but rather where you guys are getting the standards you hold him to, because it sure is hell isn't based on reality from watching other guys. Over the years here, I've seen Ben criticized for nearly flawless games where he threw, literally, two passes a little off target.

When people say Ben started declining last year, yet the only reasonably objective criteria we have are the numbers....and his numbers are above his career averages, then clearly I'm not the one lacking objectivity.

Just like people said "oh, he's breaking down and getting brittle". Again, no evidence for that - the guy has been injury prone his WHOLE career, literally from the first season he played.

Bradshaw hated and was bitter over PIT for many years, because the fans hold their QB to ridiculously unrealistic standards. Kordell wasn't good, but he wasn't awful and people started bashing him as a fag. O'Donnell was mediocre but had his moments, and people still think he threw that SB instead of just making two horrible throws with too much on his shoulders. People will never view a PIT QB equitably with how they view other QB's in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:02 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
Kodiac your lack of objectivity is pretty evident. Get it Ben is generational and can do no wrong. I agree he can be very good but not nearly as good as you think he is. Right now he is not even top 5 in the NFL


No, I watch other guys. My objectivity is not the issue but rather where you guys are getting the standards you hold him to, because it sure is hell isn't based on reality from watching other guys. Over the years here, I've seen Ben criticized for nearly flawless games where he threw, literally, two passes a little off target.

When people say Ben started declining last year, yet the only reasonably objective criteria we have are the numbers....and his numbers are above his career averages, then clearly I'm not the one lacking objectivity.

Just like people said "oh, he's breaking down and getting brittle". Again, no evidence for that - the guy has been injury prone his WHOLE career, literally from the first season he played.

Bradshaw hated and was bitter over PIT for many years, because the fans hold their QB to ridiculously unrealistic standards. Kordell wasn't good, but he wasn't awful and people started bashing him as a fag. O'Donnell was mediocre but had his moments, and people still think he threw that SB instead of just making two horrible throws with too much on his shoulders. People will never view a PIT QB equitably with how they view other QB's in the league.


Fair enough I dont bang on Ben as much as some. My beef with him is right now he is only an above average QB, when he could and should be much more. Brady/Rogers/Ryan/Bree's are clearly ahead oh him. I also think his arrow is pointing down seeing a noticeable decline in consistency over the past 2 years. He is supposed to be the leader, and win games on his own. Yesterday both Brady and Rogers were losing very late in the game and guess what they lead their teams, with their play to a win. The QB's the highest paid players, took charge and lead their teams.

If Ben did everything he could to give the team the best chance to win off the field I would give him some more slack. Based on what I see in his body and performance it is clear to me he does not. That makes me angry cause the window is shutting much faster than it should.


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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:30 am 
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The problem with comparing Ben to Brady and Rodgers is that he's just not on their level. If you hold Ben to their standard you're going to be constantly disappointed. Brady and Rodgers are elite QBs and Ben isn't. Brady is the best QB of all time and Rodgers has been there right with him for a long time. Ben flirts with their level of play at times but doesn't play at near the same level of consistency and just isn't on their level as far as seeing the field and decision making. Ben is still a top 10 guy, but I question his drive and preparation. He looks and has played so far this year like a guy who has one foot out the door.


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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:47 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
Kodiac your lack of objectivity is pretty evident. Get it Ben is generational and can do no wrong. I agree he can be very good but not nearly as good as you think he is. Right now he is not even top 5 in the NFL


No, I watch other guys. My objectivity is not the issue but rather where you guys are getting the standards you hold him to, because it sure is hell isn't based on reality from watching other guys. Over the years here, I've seen Ben criticized for nearly flawless games where he threw, literally, two passes a little off target.

When people say Ben started declining last year, yet the only reasonably objective criteria we have are the numbers....and his numbers are above his career averages, then clearly I'm not the one lacking objectivity.

Just like people said "oh, he's breaking down and getting brittle". Again, no evidence for that - the guy has been injury prone his WHOLE career, literally from the first season he played.

Bradshaw hated and was bitter over PIT for many years, because the fans hold their QB to ridiculously unrealistic standards. Kordell wasn't good, but he wasn't awful and people started bashing him as a fag. O'Donnell was mediocre but had his moments, and people still think he threw that SB instead of just making two horrible throws with too much on his shoulders. People will never view a PIT QB equitably with how they view other QB's in the league.


Fair enough I dont bang on Ben as much as some. My beef with him is right now he is only an above average QB, when he could and should be much more. Brady/Rogers/Ryan/Bree's are clearly ahead oh him. I also think his arrow is pointing down seeing a noticeable decline in consistency over the past 2 years. He is supposed to be the leader, and win games on his own. Yesterday both Brady and Rogers were losing very late in the game and guess what they lead their teams, with their play to a win. The QB's the highest paid players, took charge and lead their teams.

If Ben did everything he could to give the team the best chance to win off the field I would give him some more slack. Based on what I see in his body and performance it is clear to me he does not. That makes me angry cause the window is shutting much faster than it should.


You just proved Kodiak's point. The Texans dropped a gimme interception. Game should've been over. Brady got really lucky. Ben got really unlucky in that he had a receiver drop a bomb that likely would've been a TD and had a block kicked that turned into three for the other team. If (a) Bryant hauls in the TD, (b) the kick isn't blocked or (c) the Bears don't get three from the blocked kick, then you would say Ben had a fine game on the road and call it that. But lack of objectivity causes you to blame other factors for Ben's failure / Brady's success.

The bigger problem has been turning 2nd and 5s into 3rd and 3s because of a poor running game.


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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:55 am 
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TB wrote:
The problem with comparing Ben to Brady and Rodgers is that he's just not on their level. If you hold Ben to their standard you're going to be constantly disappointed. Brady and Rodgers are elite QBs and Ben isn't. Brady is the best QB of all time and Rodgers has been there right with him for a long time. Ben flirts with their level of play at times but doesn't play at near the same level of consistency and just isn't on their level as far as seeing the field and decision making. Ben is still a top 10 guy, but I question his drive and preparation. He looks and has played so far this year like a guy who has one foot out the door.

Good comments.
I would add to the drive and preparation comment that you will very rarely see Ben on the sideline throwing the ball.
His every third day off during camp and preseason did not help this offense.
not to mention the 2 series of pre season games...... i think Brady played in games 2 and 3.....
Especially knowing that Bryant did not get enough time in camp due to his suspension,
Knowing he had a new rookie in JuJu.............
and just overall getting more in sync with guys like James, Grimble, Rogers.

He was off yesterday. And off early.
Sailing balls high over the middle.
Sailing a ball high to the right sideline.

At that point it was obvious he did not warm up enough before the game.
Did not take his reps and throws with a game type intensity.
Did not work on his feet.

You see alot of QB's come to the sideline after a bad throw(s) or a pick and throw a little more. Rarely with Ben.

You very rarely see Ben looking at overhead shots of the defense.

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Last edited by Stosh-67 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:58 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
TB wrote:
The problem with comparing Ben to Brady and Rodgers is that he's just not on their level. If you hold Ben to their standard you're going to be constantly disappointed. Brady and Rodgers are elite QBs and Ben isn't. Brady is the best QB of all time and Rodgers has been there right with him for a long time. Ben flirts with their level of play at times but doesn't play at near the same level of consistency and just isn't on their level as far as seeing the field and decision making. Ben is still a top 10 guy, but I question his drive and preparation. He looks and has played so far this year like a guy who has one foot out the door.

Good comments.
I would add to the drive and preparation comment that you will very rarely see Ben on the sideline throwing the ball.
His every third day off during camp and preseason did not help this offense.
not to mention the 2 series of pre season games...... i think Brady played in games 2 and 3.....
Especially knowing that Bryant did not get enough time in camp due to his suspension,
Knowing he had a new rookie in JuJu.............
and just overall getting more in sync with guys like James, Grimble, Rogers.

He was off yesterday. And off early.
Sailing balls high over the middle.
Sailing a ball high to the right sideline.

At that point it was obvious he did not warm up enough before the game.
Did not take his reps and throws with a game type intensity.
Did not work on his feet.

You see alot of QB's come to the sideline after a bad throw(s) or a pick and throw a little more.

You very rarely see Ben looking at overhead shots of the defense.


After his fumble, he was looking at a Microsoft Surface pad, but in general, your point is taken.

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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:18 am 
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Our offense is at best mediocre

To quote Public Enemy, "don't believe the hype."

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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:25 am 
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TB wrote:
The problem with comparing Ben to Brady and Rodgers is that he's just not on their level. If you hold Ben to their standard you're going to be constantly disappointed. Brady and Rodgers are elite QBs and Ben isn't. Brady is the best QB of all time and Rodgers has been there right with him for a long time. Ben flirts with their level of play at times but doesn't play at near the same level of consistency and just isn't on their level as far as seeing the field and decision making. Ben is still a top 10 guy, but I question his drive and preparation. He looks and has played so far this year like a guy who has one foot out the door.


Does anyone want to say Rodgers or Brady have better receivers?
One could make the argument that Rodgers has been just as hamstrung as Ben. Or at least I've read references to such theses.


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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:28 am 
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I’ll say this, I was at the Titans v Seahawks game yesterday with a big group of friends, and I saw Mariota and Wilson both play way better than Ben did in Chicago. Wilson’s stat line was crazy good...and they still lost.


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 Post subject: Re: Unstoppable offense
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
TB wrote:
The problem with comparing Ben to Brady and Rodgers is that he's just not on their level. If you hold Ben to their standard you're going to be constantly disappointed. Brady and Rodgers are elite QBs and Ben isn't. Brady is the best QB of all time and Rodgers has been there right with him for a long time. Ben flirts with their level of play at times but doesn't play at near the same level of consistency and just isn't on their level as far as seeing the field and decision making. Ben is still a top 10 guy, but I question his drive and preparation. He looks and has played so far this year like a guy who has one foot out the door.


Does anyone want to say Rodgers or Brady have better receivers?
One could make the argument that Rodgers has been just as hamstrung as Ben. Or at least I've read references to such theses.


Yet every game I see the Pats receiver open with nary a soul within fifteen yards... Hence cheating.


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