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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:18 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
fortythree wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Let's note though, that Lit's not shy about infusing his mumbo-jumbo into a multitude of seemingly innocuous and irrelevant topics on this esteemed website.


Didn't you used to include an unrelated personal story in every post you made?


But Swiss isn't telling other people to get a life.


On the one hand, the tone of my post is trollish and that's wrong and it's on me.

On the other hand, the politics of overreaction and hysteria and identity grow very tiresome. The whole anthem thing is strictly emotive. It has no substantial policy implications and is an identity politics wedge.

And the idea that kneeling is incommensurate with respecting the very real real sacrifice of military members past and present is either intellectually lazy or worse disingenuous.

This is only an issue bc the NFL decided to become a propaganda wing of the military. Fucking F 16s flying over stadiums and shit on opening day. Come on.


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:33 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
On the one hand, the tone of my post is trollish and that's wrong and it's on me.

On the other hand, the politics of overreaction and hysteria and identity grow very tiresome. The whole anthem thing is strictly emotive. It has no substantial policy implications and is an identity politics wedge.

And the idea that kneeling is incommensurate with respecting the very real real sacrifice of military members past and present is either intellectually lazy or worse disingenuous.

This is only an issue bc the NFL decided to become a propaganda wing of the military. Fucking F 16s flying over stadiums and shit on opening day. Come on.


Everything you say here is true.

But it's not an argument that wins.

Over hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, human brains have developed heuristic shortcuts to decision-making.

Pure emotion is one of those shortcuts because when you have to decide within seconds if that animal you see on the savannah is either something you can eat or something that is going to eat you, you don't have time to reason it out.

Emotion wins...every time...even amongst people devoted to reason and logic.

Example?

Reason and logic should tell you that people respond uber-emotionally to protests against the flag and the national anthem, and that therefore any attempts to use reason and logic on these people will fail.

Thus the logical response is to not engage.

Yet reasonable and logical people engage in these debates over and over again.

Why? Because of an emotional need to defend one's rational approach to things.

_________________
Bill Walsh: “Your ability to make good judgments is much easier on Thursday night than during the heat of the game."

R S: "All praise MJG. Fuck the NUT!"


Last edited by Jeemie on Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:34 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
It's hilarious that this is a thing for some of you.

Seek lives promptly, play with your kids instead, etc.
Unfortunately it reflects the attitudes of the country, extremist media, and ultimately elections.

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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:43 am 
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Jeemie wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
On the one hand, the tone of my post is trollish and that's wrong and it's on me.

On the other hand, the politics of overreaction and hysteria and identity grow very tiresome. The whole anthem thing is strictly emotive. It has no substantial policy implications and is an identity politics wedge.

And the idea that kneeling is incommensurate with respecting the very real real sacrifice of military members past and present is either intellectually lazy or worse disingenuous.

This is only an issue bc the NFL decided to become a propaganda wing of the military. Fucking F 16s flying over stadiums and shit on opening day. Come on.


Everything you say here is true.

But it's not an argument that wins.

Over hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, human brains have developed heuristic shortcuts to decision-making.

Pure emotion is one of those shortcuts because when you have to decide within seconds if that animal you see on the savannah is either something you can eat or something that is going to eat you, you don't have time to reason it out.

Emotion wins...every time...even amongst people devoted to reason and logic.

Example?

Reason and logic should tell you that people respond uber-emotionally to protests against the flag and the national anthem, and that therefore any attempts to use reason and logic on these people will fail.

Thus the logical response is to not engage.

Yet reasonable and logical people engage in these debates over and over again.

Why? Because of an emotional need to defend one's rational approach to things.


But emotion that is in line with and supports correct reason is what is called character virtue. There should be an emotional response to defend right reason. Otherwise you would be left with folks that know what justice is but fail to act and be just. Or know courage but have no motivation to be courageous. I'd say evolution did us a favor in that regard.

The problem is that emotion and spiritedness will fight for any dumb ass opinion that gets in charge of the soul.


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:46 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
On the one hand, the tone of my post is trollish and that's wrong and it's on me.

On the other hand, the politics of overreaction and hysteria and identity grow very tiresome. The whole anthem thing is strictly emotive. It has no substantial policy implications and is an identity politics wedge.

And the idea that kneeling is incommensurate with respecting the very real real sacrifice of military members past and present is either intellectually lazy or worse disingenuous.

This is only an issue bc the NFL decided to become a propaganda wing of the military. Fucking F 16s flying over stadiums and shit on opening day. Come on.


Everything you say here is true.

But it's not an argument that wins.

Over hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, human brains have developed heuristic shortcuts to decision-making.

Pure emotion is one of those shortcuts because when you have to decide within seconds if that animal you see on the savannah is either something you can eat or something that is going to eat you, you don't have time to reason it out.

Emotion wins...every time...even amongst people devoted to reason and logic.

Example?

Reason and logic should tell you that people respond uber-emotionally to protests against the flag and the national anthem, and that therefore any attempts to use reason and logic on these people will fail.

Thus the logical response is to not engage.

Yet reasonable and logical people engage in these debates over and over again.

Why? Because of an emotional need to defend one's rational approach to things.


But emotion that is in line with and supports correct reason is what is called character virtue. There should be an emotional response to defend right reason. Otherwise you would be left with folks that know what justice is but fail to act and be just. Or know courage but have no motivation to be courageous. I'd say evolution did us a favor in that regard.

The problem is that emotion and spiritedness will fight for any dumb ass opinion that gets in charge of the soul.


Right...but these show you emotion is a more powerful motivator than reason, which is what I am saying.

Therefore I'm not so sure evolution did us a great favor after all...at least not at a species level.

_________________
Bill Walsh: “Your ability to make good judgments is much easier on Thursday night than during the heat of the game."

R S: "All praise MJG. Fuck the NUT!"


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:53 am 
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Agree on the impact emotion has on thinking.

My remark is that emotion is a necessary condition for both virtue ame vice.


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Agree on the impact emotion has on thinking.

My remark is that emotion is a necessary condition for both virtue ame vice.


Right...unfortunately with no short-term competitive advantage in favor of virtue.

Thus leading to individuals holding irrational beliefs that may end up threatening us all at the species level.

_________________
Bill Walsh: “Your ability to make good judgments is much easier on Thursday night than during the heat of the game."

R S: "All praise MJG. Fuck the NUT!"


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm 
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I don't disagree with you Lit. But I don't think this issue alone is high on emotion, low on thought (on both sides); I think that describes much of modern politics.


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:13 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
It's hilarious that this is a thing for some of you.

Seek lives promptly, play with your kids instead, etc.
Unfortunately it reflects the attitudes of the country, extremist media, and ultimately elections.


American Exceptionalism.


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 Post subject: Re: FSBI (Fuck Steelers Best Interest!!)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Some of the posts I've read today, many by people I know, freak me out, people crying about how disrespectful this is to his grandfather who fought in WW2 and Korea and the men who died face down in the muck so that the NFL would be allowed to play, how soldiers who died are the reason we play the games... huh? Don't the Germans, Japanese and all the countries we fought against and beat have sports too? Why didn't our NFL stop in the '70s when we basically lost Vietnam.

NEWSFLASH, we would have sports even if nobody died in a war, even if we lost every war, there would still be sports, The troops, the anthem and the flag are not the reasons we play, those things have nothing to do with football or any other sport.


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