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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:11 am 
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Here's what my admittedly untrained eye is seeing.

I think Haley's playcalling sucks...it is all over the place and very limiting. They play it close to the vest 99% of the time, not opening up into a full-scale NFL offense until they have to, or, occasionally, right from the get-go as they did yesterday. The problem, of course, is they never stick with it. At some point they revert to grab-bag conservatism.

HOWEVER, I think Ben has also been more inaccurate with his throws this year. Not "huge decline" inaccurate, but more inaccurate. Case in point...the throw to Hunter yesterday. I saw Nelson Agholor in the late game on the same route and with the same coverage Hunter had. Carson Wentz laid a perfect leading rainbow right into Agholor's hands. Ben's throw went slightly OOB. Hunter still should have caught it, but it was nowhere near a perfect throw. That in itself is enough to cause some struggles. You're just a little off...completions turn into incompletions. 20+ yard gains on short passes become 6-8 yards.

I also don't think Ben's getting through his progressions as smoothly as he used to...the missed TD pass to Brown being a case in point. Guys are coming open....they're not all being blanketed on every single play. Ben's not always finding them as much as he used to. Again...just a LITTLE off in this area...offense will struggle.

I did no all-22 analysis of this, but that's what I'm seeing.

Others may differ in their opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:10 am 
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I don't think this question gets asked at the end of the first half. Pretty clear that in the 2H there was zero intention to attack. That and Ben had a few passes batted at the LOS.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had one bad throw today, and a host of great ones. WTF are you talking about? Did you not catch the part of the plan where they fed Leveon Bell and we kicked the other team's ass?


This.....id also add

Haley is by far the least accomplished OC/DC in the nfl. Currently the Steelers organization is one of the most nepotistic and crony filled in the nfl. Joey, Carnell, Jerry O, many individuals in the FO. At LEAST they can all claim some level of lifelong devotion and effort in the sport.

Haley is a rich kid who failed at golf. Think about that. The most juiced in connected good ol boy buy your way in bs sport/job in the entire world and born a millionaire Haley cant cut THAT ?

He begged his daddy to get him an nfl job and most unqualified dopes would settle in to a much less demanding much less scrutinized position for the next 20 or 30 but dumbfuck Haley had to be in the spotlight.

Ben pretty much quit being himself in an open and honest way on any level and adopted the good soldier stance from then on after Millidegville.

Hed like to call his own shots and knows hed do much better but Haley runs and crys to Colbert or Rooney who then send their bs downhill. Tomlin for his part is a career football guy who has more than earned his chops realizes the Steelers are largely a dysfunctional mess on the inside but believes he is a good enough football guy to overcome it. He like to call them all on it at this point but he feels he made his deal with the devil as far as ceding some power when he was hired and he is not the type of guy to not fully honor his word even if it could be more than reasonably negotiated at this point.

Haley is and will always be a huge problem. Other good teams laugh at him.

Any and all problems Ben may or may not have relate directly and almost solely with that and will stay that way unless Haley is canned or given far less control than he has now.

Haley is an idiot who would have difficulty in a job as an announcer. Hes that bad


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:32 am 
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Bell holding out. Bryant delayed reinstatement by the league. Ben given too many days off from practice. Lack of 1st team reps thru preseason. The biggest reason the offense rhythm is off is because of the incoherent o system and playcalling. 4 wr screens to start the cleveland game wtf.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 am 
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Stairway 2 Seven wrote:
Bell holding out. Bryant delayed reinstatement by the league. Ben given too many days off from practice. Lack of 1st team reps thru preseason. The biggest reason the offense rhythm is off is because of the incoherent o system and playcalling. 4 wr screens to start the cleveland game wtf.


This too


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:49 am 
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No, I'm not seeing 6 TD Ben out there this season. But, how many "easy" throws have you seen the first 4 games? How many greatly schemed wide open plays are we getting? There is almost no play action to be seen. We are constantly running on first down. Oftentimes we are running on 2nd and long. Frankly, we even ran 3rd and long yesterday.

How are you going to put an NFL QB in a position to succeed in those scenarios? It is clear as day that Tomlin and Haley have adopted a playing close to the vest mentality.

I don't think Ben is done. Not by a long shot. I saw the lasers to Bryant yesterday...the old double clutch pump and TD toss to Juju...the sweet slants to AB. Yes, I would have liked for him to connect with MB on that bomb. Ben got excited and overshot it. It happens. Touchdown Tom does it all the time if you watch cheats games.

I think the bigger questions is why are Tomlin and Haley adopting this 1972 offense? Do they think they have another Steel Curtain? I have a hard time believing that. Do they think Ben is in decline? I don't think so.

I believe that they think ground and pound with Bell is their best way to maximize their chance at winning. I don't agree, but they clearly see it that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:56 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ben had one bad throw today, and a host of great ones. WTF are you talking about? Did you not catch the part of the plan where they fed Leveon Bell and we kicked the other team's ass?


This.....id also add

Haley is by far the least accomplished OC/DC in the nfl. Currently the Steelers organization is one of the most nepotistic and crony filled in the nfl. Joey, Carnell, Jerry O, many individuals in the FO. At LEAST they can all claim some level of lifelong devotion and effort in the sport.

Haley is a rich kid who failed at golf. Think about that. The most juiced in connected good ol boy buy your way in bs sport/job in the entire world and born a millionaire Haley cant cut THAT ?

He begged his daddy to get him an nfl job and most unqualified dopes would settle in to a much less demanding much less scrutinized position for the next 20 or 30 but dumbfuck Haley had to be in the spotlight.

Ben pretty much quit being himself in an open and honest way on any level and adopted the good soldier stance from then on after Millidegville.

Hed like to call his own shots and knows hed do much better but Haley runs and crys to Colbert or Rooney who then send their bs downhill. Tomlin for his part is a career football guy who has more than earned his chops realizes the Steelers are largely a dysfunctional mess on the inside but believes he is a good enough football guy to overcome it. He like to call them all on it at this point but he feels he made his deal with the devil as far as ceding some power when he was hired and he is not the type of guy to not fully honor his word even if it could be more than reasonably negotiated at this point.

Haley is and will always be a huge problem. Other good teams laugh at him.

Any and all problems Ben may or may not have relate directly and almost solely with that and will stay that way unless Haley is canned or given far less control than he has now.

Haley is an idiot who would have difficulty in a job as an announcer. Hes that bad


The mental gymnastics to protect Tomlin...


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:59 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I don't think this question gets asked at the end of the first half. Pretty clear that in the 2H there was zero intention to attack. That and Ben had a few passes batted at the LOS.

This is what it looked like to me as well. Absolutely frustrating. One would think we'd be used to this approach. I'm not ever going to agree with that approach. The batted passes happen. The other side gets paid too. To me, the game plan was a conservative one and it allowed the rats to stick around just about all game long. If fluke-o was hitting on all cylinders and the rat OLine was decent I could see that game turning out much different. I'll take the win. On to the Jags...


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:35 am 
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I think so. He wasn't particularly off yesterday. He and Bryant are still working to get on the same page, but Ben's pass to Brown under duress was perfection (Brown should have caught it). I doubt there are 5 QBs in the league who could have pulled that off. Ben isn't quite as good now as he was in his prime, but I think he's more than good enough. Once the offense gels and Bell and Bryant are fully re-integrated, I think we'll see a few of the 40+ point explosions we usually see each year.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:39 am 
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I think there are two stories here. First is the thing that made ben a truly unique historical qb talent, i.e. The ability to extend plays, fight off and through pressure and improvise, has diminished with age. That's a tough pill to swallow but that's the reality. I think he even except that.

Now we come to Haley. Bit of a paradox here. Because I generally agree with the idea that they are trying to turn ben into a pocket quarterback. But like I pointed out some of this has to happen because that youthful ability to allude the rush and make plays is falling off and it has to be converted into reading the feel better.

So ben has a big contract to finish out his career and in comes Haley with the marching orders to run the ball and choose quick release type passes. It looks like he's hamstringing ben but it's all part of this is more nuanced plan. It's a paradox because it appears the plays are really stupid at times yet ben is putting up very good numbers in general and taking if you were sacks.

Third quarter of this rats game is really irritating to me because you could really see the negative side of Haleys offense of conception. Yet they won.

Anyway you look at it this is what we're going to see for the next year or two until ben hang some up so I'm hoping for the best.

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