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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:42 pm 
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StillerDownSouth wrote:
KC wrote:
No bigger Ben fan here than me and I think we're at the point where Roethlisberger just can't make amazing things happen CONSISTENTLY anymore.

He just can't.

We'll see a few games where he will absolutely wow us with a 5 TD pass performance, etc. but for the most part....yesterday is going to be the norm.

Sadly.


This is where I am at also KC. And I agree with most that Haley generally sucks balls, but we all know why he was brought in in the first place was because Ben was getting killed under Arians, the same way Palmer os getting killed currently, something had to change or I don’t think Ben would still ne playing today. I don’t mind a heavy dose of running the ball especially if we are winning games doing it, just wish they would lighten the load on Bell some, keep him around 20-25 touches a game max, we need both Ben and Bell on the field come playoff time imo. I think its time to give Conner 8-12 touches per game and Watson 3-5, both have shown in limited action that they can be productive. I also wonder if part of their overall plan is to limit the hits Ben takes during the course of the season so he is healtier in January and February.


I'm fine with running the football a lot IF...

When we do throw the football, we attack vertically.

A combo of a high dose of running plus too many horizontal throws and throws short of the sticks and risk averse deep throws down the sidelines is VERY conservative football.

So I can't really judge the qb with that kind of game plan.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:05 pm 
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We hear lots of talk from this team when the running game struggles that we need to "get it going".

When do we see the recognition that the passing game needs to get going?

QBs need to get into rhythm too. As do receivers.

How often do we throw the ball on first down? We are maddeningly predictable. Even our runs are stale.

Yesterday, we had a 3rd & 8 inside FG range and didn't even try to throw for the first. Another hand off and another failed 3rd down conversion.

These coaches are playing for FG. These coaches don't scheme a high enough number of high % throws to get QB into rhythm.
Is it any wonder he's off when asked to complete passes only on third down when the defense is in full on pass defense mode?

And the no play action thing?

Ben is not what he once was. Even my wife who is not very football savy sees it. Said yesterday matter of fact Ben isn't the Ben we know. Told our son who was only 3 in 2004 that he never got to enjoy the real Ben Roethlisberger.

But he's also not what he could be now because of our below the line HC/OC.

Put Ben on a team with a HC/OC that know how to scheme an offense and all of a sudden maybe he throws for more yards & scores.

Our scheme is run heavy with some chuck & duck mixed in.


Last edited by 955876 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:06 pm 
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KC wrote:
Havoc wrote:
KC wrote:
No bigger Ben fan here than me and I think we're at the point where Roethlisberger just can't make amazing things happen CONSISTENTLY anymore.

He just can't.

We'll see a few games where he will absolutely wow us with a 5 TD pass performance, etc. but for the most part....yesterday is going to be the norm.

Sadly.


But KC...

The game plan yesterday wasn't for a 5 TD kind of passing game.

Our first trip into the RZ and we didn't even throw the football past the first down marker let alone the EZ.

He still has the arm strength. He lost his elusiveness. He can make all the throws.


He sure doesn't seem to make those throws very accurately anymore.

His deep balls have no touch anymore. As someone else said in this thread, Ben's strong-arming everything.

Even the pass early in the Bear's game that people are giving Bryant shit about for "dropping", maybe John Stallworth catches that.

Would have been one tremendous grab had he made it. There was no touch on that ball, it was a line drive.

Everything from Ben now is a line drive.

Just slower at everything. Even decision-making.

As I said, he'll have a few big-time games this year. I'll be surprised if he doesn't, but yesterday's game is likely going to be the norm.

He isn't far from the end.


The deep ball to Bryant against the Bears was all Bryant because he ran a terrbile, non-crisp route, and slowed down in the middle of it.

That doesn't discount the other things you pointed out.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:29 pm 
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SP wrote:
I see a few major issues with the offense over the past year. One is they are too run heavy. Why? Partly because of Todd Haley. But the real elephant in the room is the receiving weapons aren't any damn good.

Ayers and Hamilton were top 3 guys down the stretch last year. Both are now out of the league. Coates was a top guy too, now he's rotting on the bench in Cleveland. This year JuJu is a rookie learning on the job and Bryant is shaking off a years worth of rust. Rogers is a fringe NFL talent. The TE group is as bad as you'll find in the NFL. All of this forces the ball to AB or dump offs to Bell.
Hopefully Bryant and Juju get up to speed, but suspension and injury limited their time with Ben in camp.

As far as Ben goes, he has lost mobility. That crazy scramble play for a big gain is all but gone. Look at the young QBs in the league who are succeeding, they all have that scramble ability Ben has lost. His arm and decision making are as good as ever. Accuracy this year hasn't been great yet, but I think that will change. Juju and Bryant need to step up. A TE needs to emerge. The o line needs to quit killing 4 drives a game with penalties.

You also can't discount that when you don't throw past the line of scrimmage or even throw at all on early downs, the QB/receivers get no rhythm, they're always facing more coverage where they need to go-- it's much, much harder to throw on 3rd down than it is on 1st or 2nd. No one is saying Ben is the escape artist he was at one point, but he is so handcuffed by what they do on offense that its laughable not to take that into account when assessing his play. Like, Ben-- we're going to run it 21 of 23 plays in a row... now go on and throw a perfect deep ball! QBing is not done on demand, even at the NFL level.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
The deep ball to Bryant against the Bears was all Bryant because he ran a terrbile, non-crisp route, and slowed down in the middle of it.

That doesn't discount the other things you pointed out.


Bryant didn't run a great route by any means, but the throw was shit.

Ben used to be able to put plenty of air under his deep throws, allowing guys to run under it.

Now he just fires it and hopes guys get to the spot. The play has to be PERFECT to work. No room for error.

Like the deep ball to Bryant yesterday that Ben fucked up.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:05 pm 
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KC wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
The deep ball to Bryant against the Bears was all Bryant because he ran a terrbile, non-crisp route, and slowed down in the middle of it.

That doesn't discount the other things you pointed out.


Bryant didn't run a great route by any means, but the throw was shit.

Ben used to be able to put plenty of air under his deep throws, allowing guys to run under it.

Now he just fires it and hopes guys get to the spot. The play has to be PERFECT to work. No room for error.

Like the deep ball to Bryant yesterday that Ben fucked up.


That one was definitely bad, as was the throw down the sideline to Hunter...like I said, in the Eagles/Chargers game, there was pretty much the exact same pass with the exact same coverage, only Carson Wentz threw a perfect rainbow to Nelson Agholor.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:06 pm 
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QBs other than Ben underperforming expectations so far this year

Matt Ryan
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Dak Prescott
Andy Dalton
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Carson Palmer
Marcus Mariota
Cam Newton

It's not just Ben and it's not all old guys. Offense has been down for whatever reason. The season is still young, I expect many to turn it around. Let's talk again in week 12 or 17.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:07 pm 
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SP wrote:
QBs other than Ben underperforming expectations so far this year

Matt Ryan
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Dak Prescott
Andy Dalton
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Carson Palmer
Marcus Mariota
Cam Newton

It's not just Ben and it's not all old guys. Offense has been down for whatever reason. The season is still young, I expect many to turn it around. Let's talk again in week 12 or 17.


Yes...except for the Pats humming along with 15 TDs on the young season, offense kinda sucks everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Just throwing this out there. Is part of the reason for conservative game planning to preserve Ben?

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:13 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Just throwing this out there. Is part of the reason for conservative game planning to preserve Ben?


No, Haley and Tomlin are old school in that they LOVE what a running game does for TOP of wearing down a defense. And clearly they've wanted to get Bell back up to speed. Bell and the running game being a complementary piece to a lethal passing game - not on the radar.

Early in Ben's career, pre-Haley, he rarely threw short of the sticks on 3rd down. He'd even go after 3rd and 15. That only works in NE - our guys don't get the separation to add on 3 yards after that catch to get the first.

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