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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:21 pm 
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I know one thing...if they continue to force feed the ball to Lev Bell 35-40 times per game, he won’t be available when they need him the most...

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Just throwing this out there. Is part of the reason for conservative game planning to preserve Ben?


No, Haley and Tomlin are old school in that they LOVE what a running game does for TOP of wearing down a defense. And clearly they've wanted to get Bell back up to speed. Bell and the running game being a complementary piece to a lethal passing game - not on the radar.

Early in Ben's career, pre-Haley, he rarely threw short of the sticks on 3rd down. He'd even go after 3rd and 15. That only works in NE - our guys don't get the separation to add on 3 yards after that catch to get the first.



In 2014 Ben averaged 310 yd/gm and career high 38 pass attempts/gm. That was with Haley and Tomlin too. But in 2015 and 2016 Ben kept getting dinged up and missed a handful of games both seasons. I can't help but think they are being more conservative to keep him healthier.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
I know one thing...if they continue to force feed the ball to Lev Bell 35-40 times per game, he won’t be available when they need him the most...


That is true as well. I thought we should have seen a little more of James Connor yesterday. Especially on the final TD drive after the second interception. Game was essentially over. They didn't need to use Bell as an exclamation point.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:39 pm 
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I know this:

- Rivers has never really been on Ben's level. He's put up comparable numbers, I've just never been impressed
- Eli has struggled with accuracy throughout his career. He's been able to string together enough play for enough weeks to win 2 SB's
- Brees is overrated....he throws the ball A LOT, he throws a lot of picks, and he's made a living off jump balls
- Peyton was routinely garbage in the playoffs, and probably has the two worst string of playoff games for a SB winning QB.

Tom Brady plays in a system inarguably the best since the early days of the WCO (and probably better). That offense plugs-n-plays anyone, including QB, and performs at a top-5 level

Aaron Rodgers may be the most talented QB ever to play the position.

And this board would bitch if either Rodgers or Brady was out there running Haley's plays.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:04 pm 
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SteelPro wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
SteelPro wrote:
Just throwing this out there. Is part of the reason for conservative game planning to preserve Ben?


No, Haley and Tomlin are old school in that they LOVE what a running game does for TOP of wearing down a defense. And clearly they've wanted to get Bell back up to speed. Bell and the running game being a complementary piece to a lethal passing game - not on the radar.

Early in Ben's career, pre-Haley, he rarely threw short of the sticks on 3rd down. He'd even go after 3rd and 15. That only works in NE - our guys don't get the separation to add on 3 yards after that catch to get the first.



In 2014 Ben averaged 310 yd/gm and career high 38 pass attempts/gm. That was with Haley and Tomlin too. But in 2015 and 2016 Ben kept getting dinged up and missed a handful of games both seasons. I can't help but think they are being more conservative to keep him healthier.



I agree with this, why all of a sudden have they gone from throwing it so much, to not? Same system, same coaches and for the most part same players. Part of it could be game situation, we have been leading for the majority of every game we played this year with the exception of Chicago, which for most teams means you end up running it more than throwing it, also I agree with the poster who said they could be viewing this as a chance to get more "practice" in during game situation since with the new CBA padded practices are basically outlawed now and the running game takes practice. Only thing I would like to see going forward is a lessor load for Bell and mixing in more play action, but I would much rather have a healthy Ben come playoff time then have to rely on Landry or Dobbs thats for sure, or have a Ben playing at 50% because he has taken too much punishment throughout the regular season. I don't give a shit if they win 45-0 or 6-3, a win is a win.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:39 pm 
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StillerDownSouth wrote:
...we have been leading for the majority of every game we played this year with the exception of Chicago, which for most teams means you end up running it more than throwing it, also I agree with the poster who said they could be viewing this as a chance to get more "practice" in during game situation since with the new CBA padded practices are basically outlawed now and the running game takes practice...


Those are all good points. But I think a big part is PIT would like to be balanced, even skew toward running a bit more. We've been in the lead, and CHI was relatively close, so they are going more for the 50/50 split (with a little more leaning toward the run). A lot of NFL teams are closer to 40/60 run/pass.

You're not going to throw for 300 yards throwing it only 32 times a game. But Ben's comp% and YPA are down signficantly below his career numbers, and well below 2014/2015 with Bryant. Granted, if he connects on 1 of those 60 yard bombs then his YPA is a good bit better. Everyone agrees he's not been as sharp as we've seen, but Ben playing at a "B" level doesn't explain a lot of the issues we're seeing.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the blown play to AB may have been an ad lib, to which I replied according to AB it is a play they practice. If you head over to steeler depot they have a break down of the play, also show where they ran the same play in the AFC championship last year to Eli. After watching their clip it seems to me Ben came off of AB to quick, looks like he felt pressure that was not there. Just my 2 cents, it is actually a nice play and AB would have walked in for a TD. I would post a link but I can’t figure out how to from my phone.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:56 pm 
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I've been one of Ben's biggest complainers on the board.

Probably I have unrealistic expectations.

I think there is some decline in decision making and accuracy.

I want Haley run out of town IMMEDIATELY.

With the right OC and a line that is kicking ass and taking names I think Ben can still be deadly.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I think there is some decline in decision making and accuracy.


The accuracy issue is not really debatable - he's thrown the ball well for a total of maybe 4 out of 16 quarters. Nobody is perfect, but when Ben is on top of his game that ratio is flipped.

The decision making I just don't know without breaking down the all-22. I've heard this complaint for the entirety of Ben's career, and while I've not seen breakdowns recently I remember plenty of times in the past where the analysts would show us the overhead and show us how everyone was covered (despite many posters in the game thread insisting receivers off their screen were open). I put the ratio of "imagined" Ben misreads to actual misreads somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-to-1.

Ben's always been his share of greedy/gambler/impatient. More of a trait than a decision-making issue - you take the good with the bad. He's managed that stuff a little better as his career has gone on. But I don't buy a lot of the other stuff with regard to decision making. Ben holds and holds the ball and gets sacked or throws it away and he's criticized. Ben doesn't hold the ball and "misses" AB and he gets criticized.

It all adds up pretty clearly that our OC sucks because we need Ben to be almost PERFECT for this offense to work....intuitively we all know it, and Ben is the only guy who can do anything about it. It's just a really miserable way to have to watch the games.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Ben capable of carrying the PS anymore?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
With the right OC and a line that is kicking ass and taking names I think Ben can still be deadly.


Another thing worth pointing out....Ben's accuracy was other-worldly for about two years over 2014-15. And I've only ever seen Rodgers throw like that, himself sustaining that for about 3-4 years.

Ben has been "off" more often than not this year. But I don't see last year as the beginning of any sort of a decline, just a reversion to throwing the ball like he had most of his career outside the two years I mentioned.

Which brings another angle into the mix - Haley's offense finally started looking lethal and poised to set records...but only when you had a QB throwing the ball historically great. If you're talking about a more human Ben throwing the ball around like he did those first 3 years in Haley's offense, well, a lot of people thought Haley needed run out of town back then.

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