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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:03 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
In his post game presser BR said finny asked him what to do in the huddle on the play since he was already on the field with the clock running. He said : block someone and then go to the flat.

I see Haley has the offense running like a well oiled pig.

That was the first play of the series to boot.
Was the play after Cam caused and recovered the fumble.

So how the offense and OC was not prepared to start a new possession and series, with the right players and right play call is just another example of the mess that this offense is.....long before the snap of a ball.
And in this case before the break of the huddle.
No wonder why we have so many pre-snap penalties.

Be nice to turn up the focus and intensity in practice to get this offense to start acting like they have played together before.
But we only have one more day until Ben gets his mid-week day off. Seems like an eternity since his last day off.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:45 am 
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fortythree wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I don't think Ben has ever stated it, but I actually believe he doesn't like using PA a lot at this stage in his career. I don't think he likes tuning his back to the LOS and then making/reading a pass play. I could be wrong, but it's what I think at least.


PA is a QB's best friend. And even if the above were true, I'd expect my OC to say "tough luck....no....PA is a QB's best friend".

Some of the theories I'm seeing being floated and offered up....if there's any merit to any of it, at all, then Tomlin and Haley are even more incompetent than I ever thought possible.


Can you share them or do they only exist inside your own head?

It's because I base my opinion on being extremely well informed. Not like some here (hint-hint) that want to get into pissing contest with others then they say they didn't really see the play/video/text (you name it) until after their running off the their mouth for two days. Or they won't admit it to anyone, even if they know its true. 43, you've proven yourself now, time and time again, that you have many uniformed opinions, but want so badly for everyone to think your big and scary and "in the know". When the reality is, you're the worst kind of "guy in the know"...one that's lazy, ill-informed and to young & dumb to know it. I take that last part back, you're probably not dumb, and you know all those things about yourself, your just to insecure to admit it. You do write purdy though!

Please stop getting into pissing contest with me until you actually grow a dick (and some balls) and stop sitting to pee.

Have a good one though, tough guy. :lol:

Oh, and regarding Ben and not liking PA, you can see it in his motions when he does it (not a lot of interest in doing it right - if you actually watch the plays and don't just read about them) and I thought I remembered hearing too (as confirmed by SoCalSteel), but couldn't place it exactly, so didn't want to state it if I wasn't sure. See, I can do that, because I'm really well informed, not lazy or insecure. Try it sometime, you may find people will respect you more...if you have the balls, that is.....oh wait...


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:31 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Oh, and regarding Ben and not liking PA, you can see it in his motions when he does it


If true (and I'm still skeptical even if Batch said it....because it's fucking unbelievable and stupid) it might have something to do with Ben getting murdered for YEARS trying to run PA behind our OL.

Yeah, I'd hate turning my back to the defense, too, if I'm getting trucked almost every time I do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
In his post game presser BR said finny asked him what to do in the huddle on the play since he was already on the field with the clock running. He said : block someone and then go to the flat.

I see Haley has the offense running like a well oiled pig.

That was the first play of the series to boot.
Was the play after Cam caused and recovered the fumble.

So how the offense and OC was not prepared to start a new possession and series, with the right players and right play call is just another example of the mess that this offense is.....long before the snap of a ball.
And in this case before the break of the huddle.
No wonder why we have so many pre-snap penalties.

Be nice to turn up the focus and intensity in practice to get this offense to start acting like they have played together before.
But we only have one more day until Ben gets his mid-week day off. Seems like an eternity since his last day off.



It could only be more comical if it was Laundry Jones throwing it to Finney as a fake FG


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:39 pm 
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But if you are running a lot from shotgun, you don't need to turn your back on the defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
But if you are running a lot from shotgun, you don't need to turn your back on the defense.

Exactly...and you can also run PA from under center without the need for the QB to turn his back on the defense. But in the Steelers offense, where most rushes have the QB running back 7 yards to hand to the RB, it is a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Oh, and regarding Ben and not liking PA, you can see it in his motions when he does it


If true (and I'm still skeptical even if Batch said it....because it's fucking unbelievable and stupid) it might have something to do with Ben getting murdered for YEARS trying to run PA behind our OL.

Yeah, I'd hate turning my back to the defense, too, if I'm getting trucked almost every time I do it.

I agree it should be used and is one of a QB's best friends, if used properly. I'm just telling you what I see. Compared to QBs that are very good at it, he doesn't sell it like they do. Actually, I do (now), remembering hearing Batch state it. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. I love what Ben has done for the Steelers, but am not blind to thinking he's close to perfect (and not saying you are), like many here. All may not agree, but I want my team leader working harder than those he's leading and harder than all of his QB peers. Based on what I see, he's not. Ben has much more say in this offense Monday-Friday and on the field, on Sundays, than many here think or may want to admit....imo, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:07 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
I agree it should be used and is one of a QB's best friends, if used properly. I'm just telling you what I see.


I get what you're saying, but his first 4-5 years in the league he was historically great on PA.....I mean, off the charts. And they ran it, A LOT, more than Peyton some years.

And if this is true and the reason they don't run more PA, what does that say about Tomlin/Haley? I think it would say they're stupid...or pussies...and probably both.


Stockholm syndrome.....Ben's come up with a way to rationalize for himself Haley not running PA :lol: :lol:


But, seriously, there are many criticisms I've seen of Ben over the years that never made much sense. One was the inability to throw the screen. Then Haley came, it became more of a focus, and Ben got a lot better at it (and maybe a back or two with some actual receiving ability). Ben is a HOFer - what you see on Sunday reflects what they practice and prioritize.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:18 pm 
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The PAs I saw on Sunday was really half assed. Kind of wave the ball in Bells direction. I think Ben can't move very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I agree it should be used and is one of a QB's best friends, if used properly. I'm just telling you what I see.


I get what you're saying, but his first 4-5 years in the league he was historically great on PA.....I mean, off the charts. And they ran it, A LOT, more than Peyton some years.
BR had Bettis. Then Fast Willie. BR hasn't had a decent back for a while until Bell showed up. Spindenhall was average. PA works only when you have a decent RB that draws attention with either speed, brut force, or quickness. Something redman, moore, dwyer, and a few others simply did not have.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
DP39 wrote:
I agree it should be used and is one of a QB's best friends, if used properly. I'm just telling you what I see.


I get what you're saying, but his first 4-5 years in the league he was historically great on PA.....I mean, off the charts. And they ran it, A LOT, more than Peyton some years.

And if this is true and the reason they don't run more PA, what does that say about Tomlin/Haley? I think it would say they're stupid...or pussies...and probably both.


Stockholm syndrome.....Ben's come up with a way to rationalize for himself Haley not running PA :lol: :lol:


But, seriously, there are many criticisms I've seen of Ben over the years that never made much sense. One was the inability to throw the screen. Then Haley came, it became more of a focus, and Ben got a lot better at it (and maybe a back or two with some actual receiving ability). Ben is a HOFer - what you see on Sunday reflects what they practice and prioritize.

With regards to Ben not wanting/liking to do it, I guess there could many reasons. His body being older/beat up and not liking to got through that motion and not being able to see a hit coming while turned to name one. Whatever happens with what Ben does when running this offense, I feel fairly confident he has a very large say in it. And, personally, to be the best leader he can, I think he should be practicing on Wednesdays. My guess is that most of his peers do.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:46 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Whatever happens with what Ben does when running this offense, I feel fairly confident he has a very large say in it. And, personally, to be the best leader he can, I think he should be practicing on Wednesdays. My guess is that most of his peers do.


Here's the point I'm trying to make. He is an uber-competitor. Personally, I think the comments on the footwork and play fakes of a 14-yr vet heading to the HOF are an effort to be way too cute. But even if true Ben is not the type of guy to tell Haley/Tomlin to fuck off if they were to point out he needs to work on those things.

And, I mean, who is giving Ben all these days off? I don't think our franchise QB is a delicate flower that needs to be catered to and pandered to by the coaches.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Whatever happens with what Ben does when running this offense, I feel fairly confident he has a very large say in it. And, personally, to be the best leader he can, I think he should be practicing on Wednesdays. My guess is that most of his peers do.


Here's the point I'm trying to make. He is an uber-competitor. Personally, I think the comments on the footwork and play fakes of a 14-yr vet heading to the HOF are an effort to be way too cute. But even if true Ben is not the type of guy to tell Haley/Tomlin to fuck off if they were to point out he needs to work on those things.

And, I mean, who is giving Ben all these days off? I don't think our franchise QB is a delicate flower that needs to be catered to and pandered to by the coaches.
It's like anything else. You produce, have a good work ethic, the right attitude, are well liked, follow direction, and you get rewarded with some degree of influence. People who fulfill their obligations to a high degree have control over their schedule. I think he requests days off, and the steelers organization give him the leeway to decide when he needs practice and when he doesn't. For good or bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:58 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
I think he requests days off, and the steelers organization give him the leeway to decide when he needs practice and when he doesn't. For good or bad.


Surely he could practice if he wanted. But it IS a vet's day off. I think as long as Ben and Tomlin feel the extra reps aren't the issue (and I'm not saying they are) he'll get the day off. Ben practicing on Wednesdays isn't going to do a damn thing to make Haley pull the head out of his ass.

And, hey, given how often Ben gets hurt....Laundry getting a day of reps during the week is probably not a bad thing :D

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
I think he requests days off, and the steelers organization give him the leeway to decide when he needs practice and when he doesn't. For good or bad.


Surely he could practice if he wanted. But it IS a vet's day off. I think as long as Ben and Tomlin feel the extra reps aren't the issue (and I'm not saying they are) he'll get the day off. Ben practicing on Wednesdays isn't going to do a damn thing to make Haley pull the head out of his ass.

And, hey, given how often Ben gets hurt....Laundry getting a day of reps during the week is probably not a bad thing :D

I'm no Haley apologists, to be sure. There are a handful of OCs that I would love to see what they could do with our offensive talent and with Ben buying in. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:35 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
There are a handful of OCs that I would love to see what they could do with our offensive talent and with Ben buying in. ;)


Shoot, I think they could do more without an OC just by removing Haley from the equation. But I think it's safe to assume that everyone would be better served by Ben being less involved in the OC job. Peyton may have had a similar amount of influence, but I don't think any other QB is close.

Ben and AB certainly aren't sniping at Haley because they buy-in...

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Like it or not, Haley is the last OC Ben will ever have, and likely the only one Landry will have after Ben hangs em up. When another one does come along, we can only hope Tomlin is no longer around to fuck up his mojo as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:53 pm 
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This wasn't Todd Haley's fault most likely. Position coaches responsible for getting appropriate personnel on the field - would suspect TE coach responsible here but I don't know what coaches handle jumbo package personnel.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:55 pm 
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FromPittWithLove wrote:
This wasn't Todd Haley's fault most likely. Position coaches responsible for getting appropriate personnel on the field - would suspect TE coach responsible here but I don't know what coaches handle jumbo package personnel.

It's Haley's fault if he changed his mind late about the playcall.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Or got overuled by Tomlin


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:59 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
This wasn't Todd Haley's fault most likely. Position coaches responsible for getting appropriate personnel on the field - would suspect TE coach responsible here but I don't know what coaches handle jumbo package personnel.

It's Haley's fault if he changed his mind late about the playcall.


Is that the case or are you making up a possible explanation?

My recollection of other's reports is that Ben's explanation to Finney occurred in the huddle, which makes it seem like the play got in just fine.


Last edited by FromPittWithLove on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:00 pm 
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FromPittWithLove wrote:
This wasn't Todd Haley's fault most likely. Position coaches responsible for getting appropriate personnel on the field - would suspect TE coach responsible here but I don't know what coaches handle jumbo package personnel.
That's a reasonable explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:14 pm 
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FromPittWithLove wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
This wasn't Todd Haley's fault most likely. Position coaches responsible for getting appropriate personnel on the field - would suspect TE coach responsible here but I don't know what coaches handle jumbo package personnel.

It's Haley's fault if he changed his mind late about the playcall.


Is that the case or are you making up a possible explanation?

My recollection of other's reports is that Ben's explanation to Finney occurred in the huddle, which makes it seem like the play got in just fine.

Finney said that the play clock was running when Ben told him about the play and what to do. I interpreted this to mean the personnel was already on the field when the play was called, meaning it was the OC who called a play for the wrong personnel on the field. Ben was quoted as saying "We called pass a pass play (sic)"... when he says we, that has generally meant the OC.

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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:15 am 
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Finney said that the play clock was running when Ben told him about the play and what to do. I interpreted this to mean the personnel was already on the field when the play was called, meaning it was the OC who called a play for the wrong personnel on the field. Ben was quoted as saying "We called pass a pass play (sic)"... when he says we, that has generally meant the OC.


You and I have both been around a lot of football - position coaches/players screw this up all the time (I know I did) especially when the guy in question (Finney) is not a normal contributor to that formation.

It is certainly possible that Haley didn't realize Finney was in the game, but I can't blame Todd for expecting his players/position coaches to do their jobs.

Perhaps my gripe is that I can't see how anyone can just throw their hands up and blame Haley for this anymore than they can blame Finney and/or Daniels. I get that Haley is not a favorite son here (and probably rightfully so) but I think data is being massaged to fit a narrative.


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 Post subject: Re: Finny #4 TE
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:47 am 
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Do ya think? :lol:


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