It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:56 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:34 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 13661
Scunge, to your point:

Martavis Bryant Targets Per Game
With Bell:
H 46/9 (5.1)
A 45/8 (5.6)

Without Bell :
H 36/4 (9.0)
A 49/6 (8.2)

_________________
Whatever it takes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 372
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Scunge, to your point:

Martavis Bryant Targets Per Game
With Bell:
H 46/9 (5.1)
A 45/8 (5.6)

Without Bell :
H 36/4 (9.0)
A 49/6 (8.2)


A question for these stats:

What proportion of those games with Bell for MB come from the very beginning of his career when he was just breaking in (and wasn't a top 2 option) and from this year when decline in targets might reflect MB rustiness?

Additional context would aid interpretation.

EDIT: I'll partially answer my own question, Martavis only overlapped with LeVeon for a total of 3 games in his second year in the league. He averaged a similar # of receptions with bell and without bell during that year (granted not targets).


Last edited by FromPittWithLove on Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:59 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:18 pm
Posts: 3454
Location: Sunny Delaware (but the murdery part)
FromPittWithLove wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Scunge, to your point:

Martavis Bryant Targets Per Game
With Bell:
H 46/9 (5.1)
A 45/8 (5.6)

Without Bell :
H 36/4 (9.0)
A 49/6 (8.2)


A question for these stats:

What proportion of those games with Bell for MB come from the very beginning of his career when he was just breaking in (and wasn't a top 2 option) and from this year when decline in targets might reflect MB rustiness?

Additional context would aid interpretation.


Based on a pretty small career sample size, breaking it down into too many more subcategories would make it statistically irrelevant.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 372
Ice wrote:
FromPittWithLove wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Scunge, to your point:

Martavis Bryant Targets Per Game
With Bell:
H 46/9 (5.1)
A 45/8 (5.6)

Without Bell :
H 36/4 (9.0)
A 49/6 (8.2)


A question for these stats:

What proportion of those games with Bell for MB come from the very beginning of his career when he was just breaking in (and wasn't a top 2 option) and from this year when decline in targets might reflect MB rustiness?

Additional context would aid interpretation.


Based on a pretty small career sample size, breaking it down into too many more subcategories would make it statistically irrelevant.


I'd argue the split is already statistically irrelevant if you don't actually account for confounding factors that can skew your data (i.e. he's the 4th receiver hes gonna get less targets & first couple games off suspension not at peak ability).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 7486
Good job Ben.

and as an aside, maybe if Tomlin was willing and able to rein these guys in on occasion Ben wouldn't have to do it himself.



Quote:
Antonio Brown‏
Verified account
 @AB84 58m

Apologize for all the noise and the distractions Steeler nation let's stay focus #Pushfor7


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:07 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 13661
FromPittWithLove wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Scunge, to your point:

Martavis Bryant Targets Per Game
With Bell:
H 46/9 (5.1)
A 45/8 (5.6)

Without Bell :
H 36/4 (9.0)
A 49/6 (8.2)


A question for these stats:

What proportion of those games with Bell for MB come from the very beginning of his career when he was just breaking in (and wasn't a top 2 option) and from this year when decline in targets might reflect MB rustiness?

Additional context would aid interpretation.

sure... as I was doing it-- from recollection only--the numbers were consistent from year to year.

Also worth noting that Bryant got one more target than did Wheaton once activated in 2014. He and Wheaton were both starters, essentially.

_________________
Whatever it takes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 372
You mean reinstated in 2015? The 4th WR comment is for 2014.

He got 4.8 targets per game in 2014.

That ranked 5th on the team, behind AB (11.31), LBell (6.56), Miller (5.68), and Wheaton (5.375)

He played 10 games with Bell his first year, the rest come from this year and 3 after suspension in 2015 (17 total games). More than 50% of his games played with Leveon come from his first year in the league where it was clear he wasn't going to a focal point beyond deep passing plays (this did change in the Raven playoff game).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:18 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 13661
FromPittWithLove wrote:
You mean reinstated in 2015? The 4th WR comment is for 2014.

He got 4.8 targets per game in 2014.

That ranked 5th on the team, behind AB (11.31), LBell (6.56), Miller (5.68), and Wheaton (5.375)

He played 10 games with Bell his first year, the rest come from this year and 3 after suspension in 2015 (17 total games). More than 50% of his games played with Leveon come from his first year in the league where it was clear he wasn't going to a focal point beyond deep passing plays (this did change in the Raven playoff game).

Sorry, I was talking about "activation" 2014, not reinstatement. In 2014, Bryant immediately went to the #2 WR in targets. Wheaton almost caught him in last two weeks when Bryant tailed off for whatever reason... but from the time Bryant suited up, he was the defacto #2, at least in terms of targets. At worst, 2a. I think Bryant may even have had more targets+rush touches than Miller, meaning only AB and Bell had more from week 7 onwards.

_________________
Whatever it takes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 372
They were pretty similar even if you exclude those 2 weeks (5.6, MB, vs 5, MW), but I think I'm not making my point well here.

These is a huge confound in this analysis - MB's freedom from LB in the offense completely overlaps with MB being in his second year of the system and at his peak performance (of what we got to see of his uninterrupted career). No doubt he's going to improve from year 1 to year 2 (in any variety of ways including game experience, trust from Ben), which leads to more targets.

In the only 3 games from 2014 that the two played together MB had 8.67 targets - that's right on target with what happened after LB got hurt (9.14 if you take out the last CLE game). I think LB's injury in MB second year makes it impossible to actually assess LBs influence on MB in a clean way.

I think I'm arguing just to argue at this point tho :lol: , as I'm not even sure how what we are talking about goes back to Scunge's point. I do think the Steelers decided to play the game through Bell the second half of last year and that may have hurt scoring but they also won a bunch of games when they started featuring him. I'll agree that Bell is not the explosive player other running backs are, but last year he produced as consistently from attempt to attempt as any RB I've ever seen - his anticipation and vision last year were the best I've ever seen and you really can't undervalue the ability to churn out 5 yards every time. It's a back breaker.

Scunge is arguing that Bell's inability to blast long runs is bad, and it probably is, but it should probably also be used realize how impressive that 4.9 YPC from last year is since its only inflated by a total 4 runs over 20 yards.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ben calls out Antonio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:46 pm
Posts: 1219
Right. Probably the broader point here is good offenses can move the ball in big chunks, which sort of also implies scoring quickly.

The opposite of that is the grinding run game with the horizontal passing.

And I agree bell for as great as he is at most gives Haley/tomlin cover to not go big. And not going big means they will never reach their potential and be a great offense as noted in first point.

I strongly agree with all of this too. I love winning games but there’s a real danger in Haley’s approach. We saw it last year in the playoffs so more than merely theoretical.

_________________
Three's a charm. #StanleyCup
-- Pittsburgh Penguins (@penguins) June 12, 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AirRescueFF, Bing [Bot], DrMalba, Google [Bot], Ice, JackSplat58, Jobus Rum, Louis Lipps Service, Nick79, Quixotic, Steel Drummer, Steeledge, stillevil, T.W., TB, the-other-burg, Tundralag and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
FORUM RULES --- PRIVACY POLICY




Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group