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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:45 am 
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Wait a second. The whole point of starting this thread was to criticize MM and Bud for stupid celebrations after they were b*tch slapped. That still stands.

Bud played better yesterday and I'm thrilled at that. However, he still disappears for long stretches of the game and he is normally handled by the RT with ease. His sack was huge because he used his speed to get inside on that stunt effectively making him unblocked. My problem with him is that when an OT gets their hands on him, he is usually done.

He's not playing like I would expect from a first round draft pick...period. Way too inconsistent and still can't beat RTs very easily. He does play the run fairly well though and I've always said that. I want Dupree to succeed. I want to be wrong about him. I'm not some proud poster who will rag on a player forever to try to prove some point...even in the face of evidence to the contrary. I'm not happy with where Bud is right now and this game didn't change that.

As for Mike Mitchell, I thought he had a pretty good game but he was a hair late on the TD and should have gotten a hand in there. (Great pass though so credit to Dalton too.) I still think he's a liability and I know Tom Brady will be going his way when we play them in December. I hope he's ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:51 am 
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steelclan wrote:
Oh look another rush to judgment thread based on perception. Shocking. :roll:


franco32 has one of the best defensive football minds on the board.

I always like reading his insightful posts on defense.

steelclan, you should recant.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Oh look another rush to judgment thread based on perception. Shocking. :roll:


franco32 has one of the best defensive football minds on the board.

I always like reading his insightful posts on defense.

steelclan, you should recant.

.


If you want to show me Mitchell is playing poorly break down all of his play and show us. Otherwise getting mad over one or two plays tells me one thing: you're seeing what you want to.

OMG don't you dare question poster X because they're "experts!" No one is an expert on this board. Every poster without fail has been badly wrong at times. Don't just except a prevailing opinion actually make an effort to find out if that opinion has merit.

Group think is a powerful thing and it dominates this board on certain players. It is ok to be wrong and admit it. It isn't ok to blindly parrot things without thinking critically about them.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:29 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Havoc wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Oh look another rush to judgment thread based on perception. Shocking. :roll:


franco32 has one of the best defensive football minds on the board.

I always like reading his insightful posts on defense.

steelclan, you should recant.

.


If you want to show me Mitchell is playing poorly break down all of his play and show us. Otherwise getting mad over one or two plays tells me one thing: you're seeing what you want to.

OMG don't you dare question poster X because they're "experts!" No one is an expert on this board. Every poster without fail has been badly wrong at times. Don't just except a prevailing opinion actually make an effort to find out if that opinion has merit.

Group think is a powerful thing and it dominates this board on certain players. It is ok to be wrong and admit it. It isn't ok to blindly parrot things without thinking critically about them.


LOL this is a real numbskull of a post.

If you think I don't think for myself, you don't know me at all. And you don't. Obviously.

Didn't say I always agree with him.

You accused a thoughtful poster of forming an opinion based on perception. I have read enough of franco32's thoughts on defense over the years to say I do not believe that is true. He also clarified his position in this thread.

You are the one who is being reactionary, not him. And not me.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Clan,

I respect your posts a lot. Love your all-22. I just disagree on Mitchell and Dupree. I think it comes down to what I expect from them...which is a lot. We poured a lot of money into Mitchell. He has 4 INTs in 4 years now. This year he has 2 passes defended in 7 games. That IMO is below the line if you will. MM always seems a step too slow in reacting to certain patterns over the middle. I'm not basing this on group think. It's an opinion I've formed watching him closely for 4 years. I'm simply not satisfied with his play. Do you really think his play is 8+ million a year value?

Same goes for Dupree. He has a lot of disappearing acts. I expect more out of a RD 1 OLB especially given his God given physical traits. He's now a veteran and he still uses his hands very poorly on the pass rush and doesn't show much technique. Yes, he can run a stunt well and occasionally he can loop around the RT. But, it's far too little of a impact on the game.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and he steps it up. We are going to need it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:42 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
Clan,

I respect your posts a lot. Love your all-22. I just disagree on Mitchell and Dupree. I think it comes down to what I expect from them...which is a lot. We poured a lot of money into Mitchell. He has 4 INTs in 4 years now. This year he has 2 passes defended in 7 games. That IMO is below the line if you will. MM always seems a step too slow in reacting to certain patterns over the middle. I'm not basing this on group think. It's an opinion I've formed watching him closely for 4 years. I'm simply not satisfied with his play. Do you really think his play is 8+ million a year value?

Same goes for Dupree. He has a lot of disappearing acts. I expect more out of a RD 1 OLB especially given his God given physical traits. He's now a veteran and he still uses his hands very poorly on the pass rush and doesn't show much technique. Yes, he can run a stunt well and occasionally he can loop around the RT. But, it's far too little of a impact on the game.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and he steps it up. We are going to need it.

I don't know Franco. The only reason Mitchell is costing $8M is because we asked him to restructure numerous times. His five year contract has a yearly average of about $4-5M. That's about average (16th) in the league. He's been about that, medium....not great, but not the worst either. Don't get me wrong, Mitchell does plenty of crap that pisses me off, but he is what he is...average, imo. The great news is if we move on from him next year it will cost us about .9% of our total cap in dead money....not bad at all.

Dupree is coming along, imo. He's still not violent enough with his hands/upper body, but some of those DL sacks are directly related to his speed arcing and causing the QB to step up into the pressure of 97, 79, 91, 94 & 96. Even though he's not getting home a lot, he's constantly closing the back door escape route for the opposing QBs and shortening the distance the DL have to cover to get those sacks. Seems like to me Bud wants to create all of his power from his lower body when rushing. Once he starts using his upper body as well, he'll have more success, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:54 pm 
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I'm certainly not an expert poster, but before Hagan was brought in, there weren't that many experienced vets in the secondary. Mitchell was the communicator, so although he might not have an observable stat line impact, we don't know if he was the glue that kept them together. He's Tomlin's guy who keeps guys talking. This is a total guess, but I think Hagan has brought some more smarts and experience with him, and it shows.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are Mike Mitchell and Bud Dupree such b*tches?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:24 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
I don't know Franco. The only reason Mitchell is costing $8M is because we asked him to restructure numerous times. His five year contract has a yearly average of about $4-5M. That's about average (16th) in the league. He's been about that, medium....not great, but not the worst either. Don't get me wrong, Mitchell does plenty of crap that pisses me off, but he is what he is...average, imo. The great news is if we move on from him next year it will cost us about .9% of our total cap in dead money....not bad at all.

+1

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