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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:06 pm 
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By the way, can someone please offer a justification for the double move call from 3rd and Goal at the 2 yard line?

I cannot get that play out of my head as a perfect example of how royally fucked we are in red zone offensive scheme.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
By the way, can someone please offer a justification for the double move call from 3rd and Goal at the 2 yard line?

I cannot get that play out of my head as a perfect example of how royally fucked we are in red zone offensive scheme.


Horrible, 3rd and goal and you go to a tight spot where everything has to be perfect. I remember thinking he should have at least thrown if behind him and make him come back for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Some analyst I ran across yesterday made the point that Haley is reacting to Ben being limited in what we feels he can do.


I'm calling bullshit on that. Not that they didn't say it, but that it's BS. It sounds like something Haley would say trying to cover his ass, or Ben being diplomatic about running plays he thinks are complete shit.

Ben is ultra competitive. I guarantee he's not crying about things he doesn't believe he can do...even if he actually can't do them, I guarantee he doesn't believe that, unless it's running the option.


Yep, it's the patented "U-gun" offense. Easy to defend when the QB doesn't throw bulls-eyes all over the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
By the way, can someone please offer a justification for the double move call from 3rd and Goal at the 2 yard line?

I cannot get that play out of my head as a perfect example of how royally fucked we are in red zone offensive scheme.


Horrible, 3rd and goal and you go to a tight spot where everything has to be perfect. I remember thinking he should have at least thrown if behind him and make him come back for it.


Ha, that would have been a triple move from the 2!

Maybe Haley will roll out that bullshit this week...


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:14 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Mike Tomlin. End of story.


Sounds accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:16 pm 
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No lob passes to our 6'4" WR and 6'7" TE?


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Have we thrown a single back shoulder pass this year? That's on everybody if not.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:26 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
Have we thrown a single back shoulder pass this year? That's on everybody if not.


If my eyes don’t deceive me I think I’ve seen maybe 2-3 to Brown and maybe 1 to Bryant? But I agree with your point; noticeably absent.

The one Rodgers threw to win the game against the Cowboys was nuts. Practically indefensible.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:45 pm 
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AirRescueFF wrote:
No lob passes to our 6'4" WR and 6'7" TE?

Neither play anywhere close to their size.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Orangesteel wrote:
If my eyes don’t deceive me I think I’ve seen maybe 2-3 to Brown and maybe 1 to Bryant? But I agree with your point; noticeably absent.

The one Rodgers threw to win the game against the Cowboys was nuts. Practically indefensible.



PIT threw A LOT of those the last few years, a few were almost picked (at least one was). Certainly more than a couple we had to hold our breath on.

It's an NFL staple, one that appeared to be a bit of a crutch last year as our offense seemed to abuse it. And knowing our risk averse coaches, the braintrust decided "woah, let's put the brakes on this and find some safer plays".

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:
If my eyes don’t deceive me I think I’ve seen maybe 2-3 to Brown and maybe 1 to Bryant? But I agree with your point; noticeably absent.

The one Rodgers threw to win the game against the Cowboys was nuts. Practically indefensible.



PIT threw A LOT of those the last few years, a few were almost picked (at least one was). Certainly more than a couple we had to hold our breath on.

It's an NFL staple, one that appeared to be a bit of a crutch last year as our offense seemed to abuse it. And knowing our risk averse coaches, the braintrust decided "woah, let's put the brakes on this and find some safer plays".


Ben has thrown some seriously beautiful back shoulder lobs. Their absence does seem odd. In fact, historically a good portion of his deep balls used to be back shoulder. Not many could do that.

Meanwhile, Tomlin quoted that he cares about winning not balance. I know it's just a presser but holy shit dude. Winning is an end. Ends require means. Balance or proportion of run vs pass or what kind of run and what kind of pass necessarily figure into the means.

I'd like to think Tomlin is just blah blah blahing at a question, but that sounds like an endorsement of GRAB BAG as opposed to a PLAN.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I'd like to think Tomlin is just blah blah blahing at a question, but that sounds like an endorsement of GRAB BAG as opposed to a PLAN.


Not sure I'm still on the "grab bag" bandwagon....starting to think the offense looks predictably stale and unimaginative BECAUSE they've tried to remove risk, which actually results in ADDING risk. And I don't disagree that Ben excelled at the back shoulder pass, but that doesn't mean that Tomlin/Haley didn't shit their pants over the contested ones.

Less PA, less use of the middle and slants, and now less back shoulder throws. All bread-n-butter for good offenses, but apparently not good enough for PIT.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Quote:
Roethlisberger’s 75.8 passer rating ranks 33rd in the NFL. Their run game ranks 24th. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... 1507668009
Says a lot regarding this team. Struggling...


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Also what happened to Ben's pump fake? Used to be deadly. I think I've seen it once all year and that was against the Jags.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:02 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
Also what happened to Ben's pump fake? Used to be deadly. I think I've seen it once all year and that was against the Jags.


Was that when he dumped it off to Bell after looking right at Brown first, then James?

Great progression right there...think it was his 3rd option


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I don't feel like we run bunch formation any longer. Used to be relatively good at generating open looks.


Good point.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Quote:
Less PA, less use of the middle and slants, and now less back shoulder throws. All bread-n-butter for good offenses, but apparently too hard for PIT.


Fixed it for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:10 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Has Ben "lost it" ? What's up with the scheme of the passing game? I mean it's 90% dink and dunk, Joe Walton on steroids, screen, bubble screen, shuttle pass, 2 yard slant, 4 yard cross on 3rd and 8? then other than that, maybe a long bomb or 2 down the sideline, rarely say, passes across the middle in the 10-20 yard range. Always passes where the ball is in the air a short distance and you depend on the receiver YAC to pick up yards. And mix in the runs and you're looking at the need to run 15 plays to move 80 yards, leaving little room for error. Then in the red zone, are you telling me you can't get a TE open, and you're throwing low % corner routes to AB? Do they not trust Ben's arm anymore? And what's up with the bug TE find, McDonald? James is way better from what we've seen. This is not the fantastic 30ppg offense they where telling us about.

You had to love chucking the ball 55 times at least


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:04 pm 
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NFL Live had a guest commentator? I believe. Didn't recognize her. She was talking about interviewing Ben in the locker room. I ASSUME it was towards the beginning of the season, because she said he was contemplating the changes being made in the offense, mentioning empty sets, Bell not being there, etc. I did not catch everything, as I caught trailing subtitles from the TV at the gym. Please someone chine in for context, if anyone caught it. About 15min. ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:49 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
Has Ben "lost it" ? What's up with the scheme of the passing game? I mean it's 90% dink and dunk, Joe Walton on steroids, screen, bubble screen, shuttle pass, 2 yard slant, 4 yard cross on 3rd and 8? then other than that, maybe a long bomb or 2 down the sideline, rarely say, passes across the middle in the 10-20 yard range. Always passes where the ball is in the air a short distance and you depend on the receiver YAC to pick up yards. And mix in the runs and you're looking at the need to run 15 plays to move 80 yards, leaving little room for error. Then in the red zone, are you telling me you can't get a TE open, and you're throwing low % corner routes to AB? Do they not trust Ben's arm anymore? And what's up with the bug TE find, McDonald? James is way better from what we've seen. This is not the fantastic 30ppg offense they where telling us about.

You had to love chucking the ball 55 times at least


I don't mind it, I prefer a pass oriented offense when it's clicking.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Passing Scheme?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 am 
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Obviously, I'm no pro coach. I like to think I'm a direct guy and like to look at things logically. That said, why not tailor your offense to the specific defense you'll face that particular Sunday, Monday or Thursday. If that particular defense struggles to defend the run. Run the fucking ball. If that particular defense struggles to defend the pass. Pass the fucking ball. End of Story.


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