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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:20 am 
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Quote:
. He has no pass plays over 20+ yards


How many did the rest of the team have?


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:52 am 
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Jesse James is doing an ok job. he's a #2 TE thrust into the #1 role because Vance McDonald cant' catch a cold. His quote was honest. he said the defenses have had good game plans. If anything it was a criticism to Haley. So why would people be pissed of Haley is getting called out? (as minor as a call out it was)

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:53 am 
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I've said it for weeks now in other threads. The scariest part of the offense right now is Leveon Bell. Jesse James is a late round pick that we are relying on to be our #1. He's a shit blocker, just OK as a receiver, and deceptively useful in the redzone at times as we can see from his number of TDs early in his career. That's all he is. If you expect him to be Jason Witten then you were deluding yourself from the beginning. Vance McDonald could have been a solution but he can't CATCH. That's a big problem for a TE. He has Limas Sweed hands right now.

Le'veon Bell is paid a fortune. Go back and look at his film from a year or two ago. Way quicker and faster. He is plodding out there right now. He's running in quick sand. Every time he's in space, I see defenders closing in on him easily. The next time I see him fake out a defender in the open field this season on a pass play will be the first time I see it. Don't be fooled from late game garbage running yards against Baltimore. The fact is that Bell this season has been pretty much stuffed when it counts.

That is killing the offense because it means we have to be perfect converting multiple 3rd downs on long plodding drives. I think I'm going to puke when someone calls Bell the best back in the league. I'd take about 10-12 other backs right now the way he's playing and maybe more. There is no burst or speed out of our backfield and MLBs aren't threatened at all.

All Brady or Ryan have to do at times is dump it to their quick speedy backs out of the backfield and enjoy 10-15 yard chunk plays. We don't have that at all and it's killing this offense because the MLBs can sit and relax in their zones.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:23 am 
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I am not ready to give up on McDonald just yet, and I don't think he had Limas Sweed hands. On the first drop that I remember the LBer was tight in coverage and played the catch point and forced the ball out, not necessarily a dropped pass. He had one catch negated by penalty. He had one pass intercepted because Ben did not put enough on it, under threw it.

What I want to see is McDonald start a game as the #1, let him run the all the routes, and then see what happens. I bet he would be a big improvement over James. Don't forget, McDonald was signed so late before the season was to begin, he has to learn a new playbook and get comfortable, etc.

franco32, you are so right about Bell. I don't see what others see about Bell right now. He is not the same player, he is diminished. We got the best out of Bell and I have no problem watching him leave in free agency, it would be stupid for the Steelers to franchise him a second year in a row. And my idea of doing just that and somehow parlaying that into draft picks to move up and get a QB is a pipe dream at this point. All Bell is going to do the rest of the season is prove to the rest of the NFL how much he has declined, how his speed and quickness is deteriorating. And to think that the Steelers almost paid him $12 million a season! Sure they did that for the one year franchise tag, but it could have been for 5 years! Talk about dodging a bullet, he will be lucky to sniff what Freeman got paid by Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:26 am 
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This team is dysfunctional


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:37 am 
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Kinda funny coming from this dude seeing as the offense gets considerably worse when he's on the field.

But if someone is gonna call out Haley I'm all for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:50 am 
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JJ has sure hands and seems like a team guy. Other than that he’s pretty limited at what he brings, but he’s still a decent depth guy. I too hope McDonald sees more time. Blocking alone will get him promoted then he’s gotta earn bens trust.

JJ is right about Haley’s strategic approach to games. What I don’t get about Haley is how could he have run such a good offense in zona and he’s such a moron now? The players including the qb aren’t doing him any favors but he’s getting outcoched on his own too.

Haley has even called a few good games for the Steelers. Yet he abandons what works.

Another interesting side of this is the storyline for a lot of media types who aren’t Steelers fans is Haley is reacting to the offense struggles, not the cause of them. They’ve tried the deep ball, really made it a point and it didn’t work so Haley retreats from it.

I don’t fully believe that but do believe there’s some truth in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:12 am 
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fortythree wrote:
Kinda funny coming from this dude seeing as the offense gets considerably worse when he's on the field.

But if someone is gonna call out Haley I'm all for it.


He's one of the few guys on the team that has shown an ability to catch passes in the endzone. that counts for something. His quote was pretty much nothing. If you're going to bitch and moan about people making a big deal out of Bell acting like an asshole, yet your cool with JJ making a nothing quote, that spells AGENDA.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:34 am 
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He is a marginal NFL'r.

If Coach Tomlin told any Internet turds on this forum to suit up and play TE, you'd all do it and suck at it.

The problem of James isn't James. He's a late round pick so the comparison to Heath make zero sense. The problem of James is who puts him out there.

Eventually maybe Vance McD will learn the offense, learn how to catch, learn how to not hold. Until then, we're stuck with a marginal talent because this is how the team chose to address the position.

At least he catches the ball. Which to date makes him the 2nd or 3rd most valuable receiver on this team behind Brown and I guess Bell. Yes this needs to change quickly.

Maybe it's a faulty observation...but it seems you see James more involved after McD f's something up.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:35 am 
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Yeah.. I don't get the James bashing. He simply pointed out something everybody knew, not to mention what the jags players said publicly. Instead of focusing on what he said, it's an opportunity to judge him instead? Kill the messenger? Bell and AB jerk themselves off in social media and James says something he observed during the game and he's shit?

The only thing to take from this is that the players, as well as fans, are frustrated at the game planning and play call. But the fact that they don't practice the no huddle is concerning and probably true.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:50 am 
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This is a deja vu moment from last season. The defense was dysfunctional and it took some changes ( like starting Harrison) to turn it around. I think the Justin Hunter experiment has run its course. Rodgers will get a hat this week. How long until they sign Ayers off the street to return punts?

Now if everyone in the NFL has a copy of Haley's playbook it is time to let him go and try something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:17 am 
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fortythree wrote:
Kinda funny coming from this dude seeing as the offense gets considerably worse when he's on the field.

But if someone is gonna call out Haley I'm all for it.


Indeed. An earlier poster in the thread pointed out that what JJ said is nothing to get worked up about bc what he said is so obvious to everyone.

Forgive me, but if it is obvious to everyone and our average TE is complaining about it to reporters, it seems like a pretty big fucking deal. The offense is absurd. I wonder whether Tomlin thinks it's just and all and only a failure to execute.

I NEVER complain about Tomlin. I'm getting fed up with him allowing Haley to continue the course.

But maybe it's true and the talent has fallen off a cliff.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:25 am 
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I truly don't know what to make of JJ as a TE. Nearly all of the routes I see him run it to go out 5 or so yards and button hook. I rarely if ever see him attacking the seems, forcing a Safety to center of the field. Maybe he is incapable of it, but I have't seen that route tree for him at all, not even in trying. Can't say I have seen it with Grimble or anyone since Heath retired. So, that sort of stuff would fall on the shoulders of Haley. You can rip JJ's production, but it doesn't seem that they are using him anywhere near how they used Miller, yet the playbook is the same with many TE pages torn out. If JJ is incapable of that route tree, then the coaching staff (Tomlin, Haley) and Colbert have really fucked up not finding a TE that can run those routes. A good TE keeps the Safety's at home, allowing your outside receivers more freedom on their side of the field. As it is now, teams double AB and cheat their SS into the box to account for Bell. Terrible coaching!


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:11 pm 
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It seems that a lot of people on this team are questioning the play calling and make up the team.
they need to get this fixed quickly


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Ok, I read it. I don't see any issue. A lot of the discussion here is creative context.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:14 pm 
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So I’m a bit confused by some of the responses here. Are people disputing what JJ said or dismissing what he said because he isn’t a top tier contributor?

Kinda reminds me of the “only pro-bowl/HOFer types” can be a leader debate.

I also don’t understand the JJ hate. If the guy was more dynamic athletically he would not have been a 6th round pick. He is what he is.

For every Tom Brady or Antonio Brown there are many more Jesse James types found in round 6 and many many more that don’t even stick in the league.

It’s not JJ’s fault the team failed (again) to address the position in the draft. It’s not JJ’s fault that McDonald hasn’t shown he’s able to catch the football.

If we had a legit #1 we’d likely most all agree that James is an ok #2 or #3. Especially for a 6th rounder.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:59 pm 
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DocSteel wrote:
Ok, I read it. I don't see any issue. A lot of the discussion here is creative context.


Not seeing an issue is also an interpretive judgement aka creative context.

Says game plan was predictable.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:08 pm 
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955876 wrote:
So I’m a bit confused by some of the responses here. Are people disputing what JJ said or dismissing what he said because he isn’t a top tier contributor?

Kinda reminds me of the “only pro-bowl/HOFer types” can be a leader debate.

I also don’t understand the JJ hate. If the guy was more dynamic athletically he would not have been a 6th round pick. He is what he is.

For every Tom Brady or Antonio Brown there are many more Jesse James types found in round 6 and many many more that don’t even stick in the league.

It’s not JJ’s fault the team failed (again) to address the position in the draft. It’s not JJ’s fault that McDonald hasn’t shown he’s able to catch the football.

If we had a legit #1 we’d likely most all agree that James is an ok #2 or #3. Especially for a 6th rounder.


Agree with all of this.

I also don't think if we had a legit #1 the offense would look any different.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:26 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
I truly don't know what to make of JJ as a TE. Nearly all of the routes I see him run it to go out 5 or so yards and button hook. I rarely if ever see him attacking the seems, forcing a Safety to center of the field. Maybe he is incapable of it, but I have't seen that route tree for him at all, not even in trying. Can't say I have seen it with Grimble or anyone since Heath retired. So, that sort of stuff would fall on the shoulders of Haley. You can rip JJ's production, but it doesn't seem that they are using him anywhere near how they used Miller, yet the playbook is the same with many TE pages torn out. If JJ is incapable of that route tree, then the coaching staff (Tomlin, Haley) and Colbert have really fucked up not finding a TE that can run those routes. A good TE keeps the Safety's at home, allowing your outside receivers more freedom on their side of the field. As it is now, teams double AB and cheat their SS into the box to account for Bell. Terrible coaching!

Grimble did a good bit of that last year, as did Green. At this point, I wish they'd have re-signed Green, because at least they'd have 4 games in '17 where they used the TE to clear the middle.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm 
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StillerInCT wrote:
955876 wrote:
So I’m a bit confused by some of the responses here. Are people disputing what JJ said or dismissing what he said because he isn’t a top tier contributor?

Kinda reminds me of the “only pro-bowl/HOFer types” can be a leader debate.

I also don’t understand the JJ hate. If the guy was more dynamic athletically he would not have been a 6th round pick. He is what he is.

For every Tom Brady or Antonio Brown there are many more Jesse James types found in round 6 and many many more that don’t even stick in the league.

It’s not JJ’s fault the team failed (again) to address the position in the draft. It’s not JJ’s fault that McDonald hasn’t shown he’s able to catch the football.

If we had a legit #1 we’d likely most all agree that James is an ok #2 or #3. Especially for a 6th rounder.


Agree with all of this.

I also don't think if we had a legit #1 the offense would look any different.


Todd Haley could be given the pro bowl roster and still manage to score only 16 points per game


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Steel Ubaldo wrote:
Hinestuff wrote:
Is he really implying that they haven't been practicing hard or something? I don't get it.

What the hell is wrong with this team?


What the hell is wrong with Jesse James? A slow footed tight end that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well should probably keep his mouth shut, even if what he is saying is true.

I would expect this type of shit to come out at the end of the season from a guy as he is walking out the door. Not in the middle of the season from a guy who is starting on a first place team.

This team is full of some real characters. :roll:


The Outlaw is learning his trade from Big Ben's school of "veteran leadership". He's only following his Captain's lead.

I remember when Peyton Manning called out his O-line after that playoff loss. Everyone was on his ass for being a pansy. Funny that :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Not really that bad James speaking about the offense but man, how about doing your part Jesse?

He is on pace for what?, 57 receptions this year and he is averaging a whopping 8.4 yards a catch. He has no pass plays over 20+ yards and obviously no pass plays over 40+ yards.

Currently he has 18 catches which is good for 11th place among TEs but that yards per catch is just really bad. You want your starting, #1 TE to at least average 10-12 yards per catch. Heath Miller by comparison had a career 11.1 yard average per catch.

But Miller had something else too, he was able make first downs, convert first downs.

Right now Jesse James has a first down percentage of just 44. 44%. That is just pathetic. Last season it really wasn't much better, it was around 51%. Last season James averaged 8.9 yards a catch and had a whopping 2 pass plays over 20+ yards.

Heath Miller was usually around 60-70% for getting first downs on his catches. You look at his 2014 season, his next to last season before his wheels fell off, he averaged 11.5 yards a catch, had 8 pass plays over 20+ yards, had 1 pass play over 40+ yards and a first down percentage of 64.

If you go over to the Depot they are writing some interesting articles on Vance McDonald and how the offense seems to be more productive with him on the field, blocking. James can't even do that, McDonald is the best blocking TE on the roster, James is soft as shit.

He is at his best an average blocker, does not have any run after catch ability, ever watch him run? Jesse James runs on his tippie toes and is afraid of getting hit, he runs with these short choppy steps. I have so soured on him as a player. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Jesse Jane?

The sooner Vance McDonald is made the starter and brought into the passing game the better. I would rather see McDonald and Grimble out there in two TE sets and see what happens. What have we got to lose?

This is my Xmas wish: for McDonald to be made the starter, Grimble made the #2 TE, Jake McGee called up from the PS and for Jesse James to be cut and working at McDonalds.

How much of that can we really put on James? What he's asked to do in this offense first and foremost is blocking. And James has a ways to go before he's even decent at that. Add to this Ben has been POS'd and doesn't seem to be playing well. re-Todd is the other facet of the catastrophic offensive failure. He designs predictable gameplans that go south from the gate. I can't blame James for anything but poor blocking production. The only thing McDonald has even done is blocking. If that is what you really want from your TE. His stone hands won't allow him to catch the most catchable passes. At least James makes catches rarely dropping any of them even if it means he'll get leveled. How many times have we seen James take huge hits and get up holding the ball? I'm obviously not a huge fan of McDonald at this point but I am hoping that changes. So again, can we really blame James for his low catches and first down production? Or do we really need to take a look at the play calling, OLine blocking and QB execution? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:43 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
I truly don't know what to make of JJ as a TE. Nearly all of the routes I see him run it to go out 5 or so yards and button hook. I rarely if ever see him attacking the seems, forcing a Safety to center of the field. Maybe he is incapable of it, but I have't seen that route tree for him at all, not even in trying. Can't say I have seen it with Grimble or anyone since Heath retired. So, that sort of stuff would fall on the shoulders of Haley. You can rip JJ's production, but it doesn't seem that they are using him anywhere near how they used Miller, yet the playbook is the same with many TE pages torn out. If JJ is incapable of that route tree, then the coaching staff (Tomlin, Haley) and Colbert have really fucked up not finding a TE that can run those routes. A good TE keeps the Safety's at home, allowing your outside receivers more freedom on their side of the field. As it is now, teams double AB and cheat their SS into the box to account for Bell. Terrible coaching!
I've been saying this since last year. James isn't used like Green. He hasn't even had the opportunity to showcase his speed and explosiveness (ok, that was joke), but seriously. How can you judge a player who isn't even running the same routes?

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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:20 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
alancac98 wrote:
I truly don't know what to make of JJ as a TE. Nearly all of the routes I see him run it to go out 5 or so yards and button hook. I rarely if ever see him attacking the seems, forcing a Safety to center of the field. Maybe he is incapable of it, but I have't seen that route tree for him at all, not even in trying. Can't say I have seen it with Grimble or anyone since Heath retired. So, that sort of stuff would fall on the shoulders of Haley. You can rip JJ's production, but it doesn't seem that they are using him anywhere near how they used Miller, yet the playbook is the same with many TE pages torn out. If JJ is incapable of that route tree, then the coaching staff (Tomlin, Haley) and Colbert have really fucked up not finding a TE that can run those routes. A good TE keeps the Safety's at home, allowing your outside receivers more freedom on their side of the field. As it is now, teams double AB and cheat their SS into the box to account for Bell. Terrible coaching!
I've been saying this since last year. James isn't used like Green. He hasn't even had the opportunity to showcase his speed and explosiveness (ok, that was joke), but seriously. How can you judge a player who isn't even running the same routes?


I've been a believer in JJ and to call him slow really isn't true. He ran a 4.66 and 4.71 at his pro day. He was also tops at the combine in Vertical leap, Broad jump, 60 yard shuttle and Bench press among TE's. I have no idea how well he could stretch the field since he is never asked to. Also, I don't think that what he said was a big deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Jesse James calls out game planning aka coaching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Baltostiller wrote:
I've been a believer in JJ and to call him slow really isn't true. He ran a 4.66 and 4.71 at his pro day. He was also tops at the combine in Vertical leap, Broad jump, 60 yard shuttle and Bench press among TE's. I have no idea how well he could stretch the field since he is never asked to. Also, I don't think that what he said was a big deal.



But what about now after trying to bulk-up to the protypical plodding safety-valve featured in the Steeler offense?

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