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 Post subject: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:16 am 
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I was checking out some fantasy stuff this morning and stumbled across some run/throw trends on the CBS website. It has graphs for overall run/throwing numbers per game as well as what they've done in the redzone (which is a complete farce).

Here's the link: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... lisberger/

The charts are on the right, you'll probably need to scroll down a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:54 am 
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Thought I saw a stat that showed the Steelers with a 9-7 lead half way thru the 3rd quarter had a 32-12 Pass to run ratio at that point.
Pick -6 was to follow.

Last 2 drives before the half the Steelers had 10 passes and 1 run during the last 2 minutes of play.
Hence, the pass heavy numbers are a bit inflated.

But take those 2 drives away and the Pass run ratio is still 22-11 with twice as much passing vs the run.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:16 am 
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Steelers are currently 24 ranked rush offense

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Thought I saw a stat that showed the Steelers with a 9-7 lead half way thru the 3rd quarter had a 32-12 Pass to run ratio at that point.
Pick -6 was to follow.

Last 2 drives before the half the Steelers had 10 passes and 1 run during the last 2 minutes of play.
Hence, the pass heavy numbers are a bit inflated.

But take those 2 drives away and the Pass run ratio is still 22-11 with twice as much passing vs the run.


This is something that has been a pattern with Todd Haley in the past.

Team falls behind...even a little bit...and goes pass happy.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:25 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Steelers are currently 24 ranked rush offense


To Expand on this point, as far as I'm concerned the Steelers Problem is that we are Losing the Rushing Battle on Both Sides of the ball. The old expression is "Run and Stop the Run." We are doing Neither.

The Steelers are 28th on Rushing Defense with 136.6 yards per game.

The Steelers are 24th in Rushing Offense with 90.0 yards per game.

Fix these problems, Start Winning Games.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:46 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


See, I actually disagree with this. Screens and little dumps get the ball to the RB, sure. What they don't do is allow the line to run-block, wear on the opponent's DL (which helps, over the course of a game to degrade the pass rush and overall front 7 effectiveness), and get themselves physically aggressive and pushing forward, rather than continually backing off in pass pro. Yardage-wise, it's like a run play. Physically and psychologically, it's definitely not.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


See, I actually disagree with this. Screens and little dumps get the ball to the RB, sure. What they don't do is allow the line to run-block, wear on the opponent's DL (which helps, over the course of a game to degrade the pass rush and overall front 7 effectiveness), and get themselves physically aggressive and pushing forward, rather than continually backing off in pass pro. Yardage-wise, it's like a run play. Physically and psychologically, it's definitely not.

They run block guys on these zero screens- they still pound guys. It's just like a run to the outside, with out the risk of some penetrating guy blowing up the play. It does spread the carries around, though. If you want more Bell, that's one thing. Our OL didn't do a very impressive job run blocking the Jags front in expected run situations. We ran twice in goal to go and netted a yard and a half. Backed up in our own end, we got very little. Even screens and dump offs to LB got very little. I'm not sure more Bell is the solution we're looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:17 pm 
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I'm starting to think the answer is more Conner and Watson, myself. Both have shown flashes in like 1/10th of the chances Bell has gotten, and both are physical enough to contribute to wearing down a defense.

A point I saw brought up yesterday was that a coaching staff can become TOO enamored with the idea of "taking what a defense gives you," to the point where you allow it to take you out of what you do best as a team, and into something you aren't (screens, dumpoffs and short range passing into tight windows, in this case), effectively playing right into the opposing team's hands. Strategically, I think the staff was guilty of that on Sunday.


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