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 Post subject: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:16 am 
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I was checking out some fantasy stuff this morning and stumbled across some run/throw trends on the CBS website. It has graphs for overall run/throwing numbers per game as well as what they've done in the redzone (which is a complete farce).

Here's the link: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/footb ... lisberger/

The charts are on the right, you'll probably need to scroll down a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:54 am 
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Thought I saw a stat that showed the Steelers with a 9-7 lead half way thru the 3rd quarter had a 32-12 Pass to run ratio at that point.
Pick -6 was to follow.

Last 2 drives before the half the Steelers had 10 passes and 1 run during the last 2 minutes of play.
Hence, the pass heavy numbers are a bit inflated.

But take those 2 drives away and the Pass run ratio is still 22-11 with twice as much passing vs the run.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:16 am 
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Steelers are currently 24 ranked rush offense


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:48 am 
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Stosh-67 wrote:
Thought I saw a stat that showed the Steelers with a 9-7 lead half way thru the 3rd quarter had a 32-12 Pass to run ratio at that point.
Pick -6 was to follow.

Last 2 drives before the half the Steelers had 10 passes and 1 run during the last 2 minutes of play.
Hence, the pass heavy numbers are a bit inflated.

But take those 2 drives away and the Pass run ratio is still 22-11 with twice as much passing vs the run.


This is something that has been a pattern with Todd Haley in the past.

Team falls behind...even a little bit...and goes pass happy.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:25 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Steelers are currently 24 ranked rush offense


To Expand on this point, as far as I'm concerned the Steelers Problem is that we are Losing the Rushing Battle on Both Sides of the ball. The old expression is "Run and Stop the Run." We are doing Neither.

The Steelers are 28th on Rushing Defense with 136.6 yards per game.

The Steelers are 24th in Rushing Offense with 90.0 yards per game.

Fix these problems, Start Winning Games.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:46 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


See, I actually disagree with this. Screens and little dumps get the ball to the RB, sure. What they don't do is allow the line to run-block, wear on the opponent's DL (which helps, over the course of a game to degrade the pass rush and overall front 7 effectiveness), and get themselves physically aggressive and pushing forward, rather than continually backing off in pass pro. Yardage-wise, it's like a run play. Physically and psychologically, it's definitely not.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Nick79 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Leet's not count screens-- it's really pointless without separating screens out. If I were a guy with time on his hands, I would break down the passing game to screens, deep ball on sidelines, short pass, intermediate outside numbers, past the sticks between the numbers.

Last week is a bad example, because the Steelers threw more intermediate routes and had a shitpile series of errors that skewed the results... but 24 of Ben's 55 passes were within 5 yards of the LOS, meaning they were about 50/50 in the game run+extension of run vs. downfield passing (what we would have called passes pre Walsh).


THIS^^^ All those bubble screens and shuttle passes are running plays with a different kind of had off.


See, I actually disagree with this. Screens and little dumps get the ball to the RB, sure. What they don't do is allow the line to run-block, wear on the opponent's DL (which helps, over the course of a game to degrade the pass rush and overall front 7 effectiveness), and get themselves physically aggressive and pushing forward, rather than continually backing off in pass pro. Yardage-wise, it's like a run play. Physically and psychologically, it's definitely not.

They run block guys on these zero screens- they still pound guys. It's just like a run to the outside, with out the risk of some penetrating guy blowing up the play. It does spread the carries around, though. If you want more Bell, that's one thing. Our OL didn't do a very impressive job run blocking the Jags front in expected run situations. We ran twice in goal to go and netted a yard and a half. Backed up in our own end, we got very little. Even screens and dump offs to LB got very little. I'm not sure more Bell is the solution we're looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:17 pm 
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I'm starting to think the answer is more Conner and Watson, myself. Both have shown flashes in like 1/10th of the chances Bell has gotten, and both are physical enough to contribute to wearing down a defense.

A point I saw brought up yesterday was that a coaching staff can become TOO enamored with the idea of "taking what a defense gives you," to the point where you allow it to take you out of what you do best as a team, and into something you aren't (screens, dumpoffs and short range passing into tight windows, in this case), effectively playing right into the opposing team's hands. Strategically, I think the staff was guilty of that on Sunday.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:23 pm 
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I think we are going to see a run heavy game plan Sunday, including after we are down by 2-3 touchdowns. It is going to be an ugly game.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I
A point I saw brought up yesterday was that a coaching staff can become TOO enamored with the idea of "taking what a defense gives you,"


I don't think they do that, at all. I think we do what we do, within the context of predicting of how the defense will defend us. That's why when something is working, they quickly go away from it in anticipation of the defense adjusting. NE, on the other hand, truly does "take what they give us"....and keeps doing it UNTIL the defense proves they can stop it.

Haley is always trying to be two steps ahead of the defense, and he usually sucks at it. He'll keep banging his head into the wall trying to exploit "what the defense gives us" UNTIL it starts to work then he goes away from it. When we find a weakness, we usually let the defense off the hook to adjust.

If I'm a DC, I force PIT to play small ball. And, hey, if it works they'll stop doing it, anyway. Sort of a philosophy that "Haley will make me look smart, even when I'm stupid".

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:03 pm 
Kodiak wrote:
Ice wrote:
I
A point I saw brought up yesterday was that a coaching staff can become TOO enamored with the idea of "taking what a defense gives you,"


I don't think they do that, at all. I think we do what we do, within the context of predicting of how the defense will defend us. That's why when something is working, they quickly go away from it in anticipation of the defense adjusting. NE, on the other hand, truly does "take what they give us"....and keeps doing it UNTIL the defense proves they can stop it.

Haley is always trying to be two steps ahead of the defense, and he usually sucks at it. He'll keep banging his head into the wall trying to exploit "what the defense gives us" UNTIL it starts to work then he goes away from it. When we find a weakness, we usually let the defense off the hook to adjust.

If I'm a DC, I force PIT to play small ball. And, hey, if it works they'll stop doing it, anyway. Sort of a philosophy that "Haley will make me look smart, even when I'm stupid".


Good point


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Run the ball....

...into 8 and 9 man fronts? That is what we should have done more of last Sunday?

Running the ball more only makes it more of a low scoring game, and keeps the other team in it to the very end.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Run the ball....

...into 8 and 9 man fronts? That is what we should have done more of last Sunday?

Running the ball more only makes it more of a low scoring game, and keeps the other team in it to the very end.

In this case it may be forcing the Chiefs to keep US in it until the end.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:24 pm 
I think Kodiak made a great point in another thread.

Basically....one of Haleys great flaws is....he finds something that works on a basic level....like running when there is 7 or less in the box for instance....rather than merely doing that until they stop it.....haley seems to anticipate the adjustment before it happens and then goes into grab bag mode....in order to not run the same play again.....when in reality....perhaps he should


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:29 am 
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Scunge wrote:
Run the ball....

...into 8 and 9 man fronts? That is what we should have done more of last Sunday?

Running the ball more only makes it more of a low scoring game, and keeps the other team in it to the very end.


True. But since Cowher, no matter what the game plan or roster, this team rarely is comfortably ahead. It's always too close for comfort.

Run the ball because this defense can't stop the run. Until they figure that out, possess the ball and milk the clock.

Frankly, I think Smith will expose our secondary while KC concurrently runs for 180 yards.

Butler is a moron. He is not NFL ready. Opposing offensive coaches make him their bitch. And yes....though I love the guy, that failed hire is SOLELY on Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:25 am 
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I think they were fooled badly into thinking the short stuff was going to work.


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 Post subject: Re: RUN THE BALL
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:56 am 
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Ice wrote:
I'm starting to think the answer is more Conner and Watson, myself. Both have shown flashes in like 1/10th of the chances Bell has gotten, and both are physical enough to contribute to wearing down a defense.

A point I saw brought up yesterday was that a coaching staff can become TOO enamored with the idea of "taking what a defense gives you," to the point where you allow it to take you out of what you do best as a team, and into something you aren't (screens, dumpoffs and short range passing into tight windows, in this case), effectively playing right into the opposing team's hands. Strategically, I think the staff was guilty of that on Sunday.


Connor made some big mistakes last Sunday. He needs to learn the playbook and learn how to pass protect too. He cost us a very crucial drive last week.

Everyone has the bar set at what the Patriots do/did in their mind. They have a once in a generation coach and the same at QB, plus they are in the worst division in the NFL since Christ was born. We do not need to measure against what they do. All we need to do is beat them in the playoffs or have someone else do so.

Just stay the course. Better what is working and fix what is broken. We will go up to camp 1 then camp 2 and come back to camp 1 then back up to 2 and on to camp 3 etc. we just need to be at camp 3 in December for the assault on the summit. We don’t need 30 points a game, and we don’t need to be 16-0.


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