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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:53 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS


The game was BETTER without all that! Now they're obsessed with making it perfect and the truth is, it can't be done, and imposing all the technology CRAP on the game just ruins the experience.

Soccer has it right with NO REVIEWS, but the ASSHOLES from the USA want to ruin everyone else's sports too.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:55 am 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Rocky Mtn Stiller wrote:
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

Quote:
If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."


This kind of crap is mind boggling.

This type of bullshit is what “replay” has brought. Destroying the nature of the game under the guise of getting the call right.


100% This^^^

Replay sucks, has ruined every sport that uses it!

And for every call they get right, so many others are wrong or at least baffling.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:38 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

I do. It’s not nuclear warfare or life changing medical breakthrough. It’s just a fucking game!
I’m with Nick on this one. ( :shock: did I really just say that?!. :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:58 am 
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Rocky Mtn Stiller wrote:
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

Quote:
If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."


This kind of crap is mind boggling.


Is that even English?

They spilt a lot of ink without saying anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:10 am 
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^

The quote above is the one that made no sense to me. Re-gains control but does not posess the ball? What fun football is!


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:27 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

The technology already is in place to put rfid in balls, map out a grid of the field, and to know exactly where the ball is at all times. The company that put it together is the same one that developed the 1st down line overlay and it uses some of the same technology.

The NFL has refused to implement this technology for several years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:30 am 
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Nick79 wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:
I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS


The game was BETTER without all that! Now they're obsessed with making it perfect and the truth is, it can't be done, and imposing all the technology CRAP on the game just ruins the experience.

Soccer has it right with NO REVIEWS, but the ASSHOLES from the USA want to ruin everyone else's sports too.


Replay is awful, but correctly implementing technology would remove some of the ambiguity and interpretation from the game.

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.

Same with first downs.

There'd be far less controversy, and the games would go faster because there'd be no reason to review some of these things.

It'd enhance the entertainment experience, not hinder it like replay currently does.

I completely agree with the person who said the NFL is avoiding these things only because they want people talking about these bad calls. It fills a ton of air time and creates a lot of talking points that otherwise wouldn't be there.

The technology is there, it's cheap enough that the NFL could do it, and it's reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Some serious mental gymnastics going on in the explanation, and in the end, you can have possession of the ball but not control. Or visa versa, or not, sometimes, if it looks right, when it's obvious. Obviously. On every third sunday of leap year in october, unless it's an eclipse year. In which case a TD is only a TD if you hold the ball with your left hand pinky facing north. Jesus fucking christ.

The reason they don't want to implement technology is because it takes the decision making out of their hands. They want control, to be able to guide games and create parity, and manufacture exciting games down to the wire. Then set up rivalries or match ups later in the year. Or in the playoffs. They put their fingers on the scale. Like every other business.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Louis Lipps Service wrote:

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.



Not so fast, what if the ball appears to be coming out, we'll still have to review to make sure the ball was in full possession of the runner as he crossed the line. What if it's a pass reception, we'll have to review to see that the receiver controlled the ball all the way through the process of the catch after the sensor was triggered. We may need to slow it down and get several angles and look at it closely for 7-10 minutes to make sure we get it right! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.



Not so fast, what if the ball appears to be coming out, we'll still have to review to make sure the ball was in full possession of the runner as he crossed the line. What if it's a pass reception, we'll have to review to see that the receiver controlled the ball all the way through the process of the catch after the sensor was triggered. We may need to slow it down and get several angles and look at it closely for 7-10 minutes to make sure we get it right! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nick is right. Absolutely..

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Nick79 wrote:
Louis Lipps Service wrote:

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.



Not so fast, what if the ball appears to be coming out, we'll still have to review to make sure the ball was in full possession of the runner as he crossed the line. What if it's a pass reception, we'll have to review to see that the receiver controlled the ball all the way through the process of the catch after the sensor was triggered. We may need to slow it down and get several angles and look at it closely for 7-10 minutes to make sure we get it right! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Uhhh, those call are completely independent of the scenarios I'm talking about.

We'll have those issues in there whether you use the chip or not. Those aren't going to change, but every review on whether the ball crossed the goal line or the first down marker immediately goes away. No one's saying it's going to solve every problem, but it's definitely going to help and definitely not going to hurt.

Refusing to use these chips because the catch/fumble rules are still vague is like refusing to eat broccoli because donuts aren't healthy. There's no correlation between the two.

So, why not use them?


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:50 pm 
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And when the chip malfunctions as its bound to do? Does the TD count or not? How do you know if it malfunctioned? Murphy says it will malfunction at the worst time.

And this explanation for the Jets TD is utter crap. Another call in Pats favor that will be rarer than bigfoot in terms of ever being called again. Tuck 2.0.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Miter Saw wrote:
And when the chip malfunctions as its bound to do? Does the TD count or not? How do you know if it malfunctioned? Murphy says it will malfunction at the worst time.

And this explanation for the Jets TD is utter crap. Another call in Pats favor that will be rarer than bigfoot in terms of ever being called again. Tuck 2.0.


Those will be few and far between. If it does, you fall back on replay, or take the referee's interpretation on the field. Still no worse off than we are now.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:08 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Some serious mental gymnastics going on in the explanation, and in the end, you can have possession of the ball but not control. Or visa versa, or not, sometimes, if it looks right, when it's obvious. Obviously. On every third sunday of leap year in october, unless it's an eclipse year. In which case a TD is only a TD if you hold the ball with your left hand pinky facing north. Jesus fucking christ.

The reason they don't want to implement technology is because it takes the decision making out of their hands. They want control, to be able to guide games and create parity, and manufacture exciting games down to the wire. Then set up rivalries or match ups later in the year. Or in the playoffs. They put their fingers on the scale. Like every other business.


As Hans Landa says in Inglorious Bastards

"That's a bingo"


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:45 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
The reason they don't want to implement technology is because it takes the decision making out of their hands. They want control, to be able to guide games and create parity, and manufacture exciting games down to the wire. Then set up rivalries or match ups later in the year. Or in the playoffs. They put their fingers on the scale. Like every other business.


^^^nearly impossible to argue with that, at this point

Worth noting, also, that the NFL has consistently argued in court that it's "entertainment" rather than a sporting event...while I'm sure there's sound legal reasoning behind that, it's also very very curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Speaking of Refs, that no call on Bell in end zone on 3rd and goal was atrocious. Johnson was holding him with both arms wrapped around Bell's waist.


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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:09 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Speaking of Refs, that no call on Bell in end zone on 3rd and goal was atrocious. Johnson was holding him with both arms wrapped around Bell's waist.


I thought JJ was held, too.

We've talked about "putting the thumb on the scale" with replay....refs also seem to throw (or not throw) flags with that in mind, as well. Unless you're NE, then the thumb is ALWAYS on your side of the scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Speaking of Refs, that no call on Bell in end zone on 3rd and goal was atrocious. Johnson was holding him with both arms wrapped around Bell's waist.


I thought JJ was held, too.

As was JuJu...

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
steelclan wrote:
Speaking of Refs, that no call on Bell in end zone on 3rd and goal was atrocious. Johnson was holding him with both arms wrapped around Bell's waist.


I thought JJ was held, too.

As was JuJu...


LOL, 3 of your guys get held with no call....that's going to hurt your RZ efficiency!

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Miter Saw wrote:
And when the chip malfunctions as its bound to do? Does the TD count or not? How do you know if it malfunctioned? Murphy says it will malfunction at the worst time.

And this explanation for the Jets TD is utter crap. Another call in Pats favor that will be rarer than bigfoot in terms of ever being called again. Tuck 2.0.

You still have human officials who can overrule/go to replay, whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:18 pm 
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That's what I'm trying to say, kodiak.

The difference between success and failure is small. Narratives are easy fallback explanations... and that works both ways.

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 Post subject: Re: Refs -- something must be done
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:19 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
That's what I'm trying to say, kodiak.

The difference between success and failure is small. Narratives are easy fallback explanations... and that works both ways.


Yep AB got held on key 3rd down as well. Actually let me re-phrase that: he got mugged.


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