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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:18 am 
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RemoAZ wrote:
They are better there for sure but they couldn't get much worse. It still doesn't make the run defense any better. They've been pounded by the run and I don't trust this defense against anyone. Hopefully they continue to improve but the offense simply has to score more touchdowns. If we leave the game in the hands of the defense, we're going nowhere. I still haven't been able to wipe that winning drive by the Cowboys last year from my memory. We've looked that bad against the run in a few games this season.

They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:26 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?


KC had a lot of guys hurt, but usually that doesn't mean you fall off a cliff...and they were dominated worse than that.


Defense is good. Getting turnovers and making key stops. But no defense in today's NFL is going to slow down top offenses much. That's why to be a contender they have to get the offense in gear. Even if Andy Reid is Tomlin's Tomlin, I wouldn't want to play KC again scoring only 19.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:29 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
They just played the #1 Rush offense on the road-- how did they look?


KC had a lot of guys hurt, but usually that doesn't mean you fall off a cliff...and they were dominated worse than that.


Defense is good. Getting turnovers and making key stops. But no defense in today's NFL is going to slow down top offenses much. That's why to be a contender they have to get the offense in gear. Even if Andy Reid is Tomlin's Tomlin, I wouldn't want to play KC again scoring only 19.

KC had basically the same Center they've had for weeks. They swapped out at guard two weeks. ago. It's not like they had a revamped OL for this game.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:18 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
KC had basically the same Center they've had for weeks. They swapped out at guard two weeks. ago. It's not like they had a revamped OL for this game.


True.

I'm still hoping Wilcox can be an upgrade over Mitchell. We need Davis to improve, as well. I fear Mitchell and Davis will be exposed against better passing teams (yeah, I realize Alex Smith was the hottest QB in the league....he's still Alex Smith).

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Mitchell and Davis played pretty damn well this week. Shockingly well.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Steel Reign wrote:
sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


2000 Ravens faced a line up of QBs so bad it was almost comical.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 pm 
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I thought I read somewhere that Wilcox had only one snap. Is that correct?

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:26 pm 
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steelclan wrote:
Steel Reign wrote:
sgtrobo wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but...

rookie DeShone Kizer
backup Case Keenum
backup Mike Glennon
Joe Flacco
Blake Bortles

not exactly a murderer's row of talent there. That said, we rebounded magnificently and shut down a red hot team offensively.


I see this argument a lot when our D has success and the argument definitely has a degree of merit. That being said, and I know many may disagree, but that group represents about 90% of the QBs in the NFL. The elite NFL QB (consistently elite, not just a flash in the pan year or two) is a limited breed these days. If everyone in the league is also playing 90% shit QBs too than its a reasonably even measuring stick for all. If there is a team out there only playing the top 5 elite QBs every week of the 16 week season than, yeah, they should get some extra consideration.


2000 Ravens faced a line up of QBs so bad it was almost comical.

Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.


Yeah, most years it's a stretch to identify 10 "good" QB's. Might be more that occasionally have a good year, like the Alex Smith's of the world, but still not guys you fear.

This year, as of right now, you otherwise have Brady, Rodgers, Brees....maybe Carr, maybe Prescott (still TBD, in my book). No one else is exactly lighting it up.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Might just be the rule rather than the exception. I doubt that there are any defenses facing the likes of Brady and Rogers every other week. I'd venture that most gaudy defensive stats are built off the backs of JAG or worse QBs.


Yeah, most years it's a stretch to identify 10 "good" QB's. Might be more that occasionally have a good year, like the Alex Smith's of the world, but still not guys you fear.

This year, as of right now, you otherwise have Brady, Rodgers, Brees....maybe Carr, maybe Prescott (still TBD, in my book). No one else is exactly lighting it up.


I notice you did not include Ben on your list.

:P

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
I notice you did not include Ben on your list.

:P


Even without the unlucky 3-4 picks, I'm guessing he still has a QBR below or @90, right around Rivers, Palmer, Wilson, Eli, Ryan and some of the other usual suspects. And even if his numbers were a little better, we're still averaging less than 20 a game.

I don't think Ben has been bad this year, but he's not been good. Look at that list above - a lot of "top-10" guys are off to slow starts.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:01 pm 
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I haven't seen D. Watson play yet, but Houston sure is scoring a lot of points with him. Obviously way too early to call him elite.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
I haven't seen D. Watson play yet, but Houston sure is scoring a lot of points with him. Obviously way too early to call him elite.

Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.


Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Watson has been pretty good. We’ll see how DCs adjust to him once they have enough film to break down. Personally, I think he’s going to have a very good career.


Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

True...

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

Luck has been getting the snot beaten out of him for years now. Indy should be sued for criminal negligence.

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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Steel Drummer wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Maybe. Talking heads have been trying to anoint the "next elite QB" for like a decade. Matt Ryan, who isn't exactly young any more, is probably the only to live up to the billing. Remember the excessive ball washing for Luck?....and RG3....and Cam...

Luck has been getting the snot beaten out of him for years now. Indy should be sued for criminal negligence.


Ryan had one great season. Ryan plays 9 games a year in domes. He also has been playing in a division with some putrid pass defenses for years. Elite? Nah. Good yeah.


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 Post subject: Re: #1 against the pass?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:30 pm 
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6th in goal-to-goal is pretty good - if you're getting there often.

16th in RZ is bad for an elite offense, period....especially when you aren't getting there often.

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