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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:44 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
I don't like it any more than you or Swiss.

But I don't know about mandating despite what QB reads on the field.

If the game absolutely on the line, ok.

So only take those shots when the game is well in hand?


Generic scenario

Steelers are down 14 -3 first-quarter they’ve had two three and outs in a row. offense is out of sync third series. They have a third and 2 on their own 25.

I think this would be an appropriate time for the head coach to tell Ben no bombs the AB get a first down offense needs rhythm.

I don’t see that as micromanaging.


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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:58 am 
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Turn that low percentage throw into a high one. If BR sees a high percentage throw - meaning an open guy. No debate. Open by yards - then by all means throw long. But if he's NOT open or double teamed, take the first down. Situational football. But a one on one with a cheating safety is not a high percentage throw.

BR often throws to guys that are obviously not open, sometimes triple covered, and expects AB or such make a spectacular play. The guy has to be open by a few steps to warrant a throw, and receivers need to be ready. MB is obviously NOT ready. They need the element of surprise for those plays, and they don't have it. More often than not they throw short of the sticks or take the go route up the sideline. Nothing in the middle of the field, coming out of the same formations. Easier to defend.

I call it risk management. That's what I think you guys are debating. Some like how Tomlin or BR plays black jack, others not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:59 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
I don't like it any more than you or Swiss.

But I don't know about mandating despite what QB reads on the field.

If the game absolutely on the line, ok.

So only take those shots when the game is well in hand?


Generic scenario

Steelers are down 14 -3 first-quarter they’ve had two three and outs in a row. offense is out of sync third series. They have a third and 2 on their own 25.

I think this would be an appropriate time for the head coach to tell Ben no bombs the AB get a first down offense needs rhythm.

I don’t see that as micromanaging.


Fair enough, but it is taking the decision out of the hands of your hall of fame QB (I mean, we're talking Ben, not Blaine Gabbert). Suppose you demand the high percentage dump off. Suppose you get a hopeless mismatch in your favor on the outside. Who cares how. Now suppose the ball is snapped and your WR goes streaking free for an easy walk in TD, but you have your orders to dump off for a high percentage throw.

That is my concern. It's all situational football, right? And who is best able ultimate before the snap to weigh the situation.

I'm not saying Tomlin should NEVER weigh in.

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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:00 am 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Turn that low percentage throw into a high one. If BR sees a high percentage throw - meaning an open guy. No debate. Open by yards - then by all means throw long. But if he's NOT open or double teamed, take the first down. Situational football. But a one on one with a cheating safety is not a high percentage throw.

BR often throws to guys that are obviously not open, sometimes triple covered, and expects AB or such make a spectacular play. The guy has to be open by a few steps to warrant a throw, and receivers need to be ready. MB is obviously NOT ready. They need the element of surprise for those plays, and they don't have it. More often than not they throw short of the sticks or take the go route up the sideline. Nothing in the middle of the field, coming out of the same formations. Easier to defend.

I call it risk management. That's what I think you guys are debating. Some like how Tomlin or BR plays black jack, others not so much.


BINGO is his name-o.

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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:19 am 
Ok....but what the qb sees is what determines what is and what isnt a high percentage play....some short throws are horribly low percentage....some bombs are high percentage


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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:49 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Ok....but what the qb sees is what determines what is and what isnt a high percentage play....some short throws are horribly low percentage....some bombs are high percentage


True. So, what would you call Bens throw to AB in KC? That’s the kind of thing that makes me question Ben’s decision making, at times. Was that a high percentage 3rd down choice? He decided to go there immediately.

I haven’t watched it more than a couple times, it it didn’t look like AB was ever open. Ben just decided that was where he was going, regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm 
There is obviously an idea that AB has to get a certain number of targets....i dont support that idea


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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:52 pm 
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I actually would prefer those shots being taken more on 2nd & short or 3rd & 5+. It's become a tendency enough that teams are going to give Ben a pre snap look & switch it at the snap, if they haven't already.

It can be said a deep ball INT is more or less a punt, but the problem is nobody punts on 3rd & short.

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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:46 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Turn that low percentage throw into a high one. If BR sees a high percentage throw - meaning an open guy. No debate. Open by yards - then by all means throw long.



That's not how it happens and never will - at the time the ball leaves the QB hands, you simply have confidence the guy is going to beat the DB and separate. "If he's even he's leavin'...." But by the time you see what you want to see, you've missed the opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: Boy that Tomlin .....lost control of dumb players huh ?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Turn that low percentage throw into a high one. If BR sees a high percentage throw - meaning an open guy. No debate. Open by yards - then by all means throw long.



That's not how it happens and never will - at the time the ball leaves the QB hands, you simply have confidence the guy is going to beat the DB and separate. "If he's even he's leavin'...." But by the time you see what you want to see, you've missed the opportunity.
Oh I understand that. MB has the speed. You look at film to see if he's consistently getting separation. He's not, by my eye test. He should be getting separation right off the LOS. If that happens, great. Make the throw. He's not high pointing and fighting for jump balls, so it's a low percentage throw if he's "even." Low confidence means low percentage reception.

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