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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:36 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Scunge wrote:
But you know something Ice, it sure looks like the NFL this season is allowing defensive backs to play more physical and hands on. I don't even know what grabby means anymore, at least for this season.

Not in the games I'm watching. Defenders are barely doing anything, yet drawing flags.


Well that was not the case Sunday in Bengals game. Bengals DBs especially Jackson got away with a ton well beyond 5 yards and deep into routes.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:38 am 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Haden and Hilton show that you can’t cover up your secondary with scheme and hope to be effective. The lebeau system went and got guys from late rounds, taught them the system, keep the play in front, tackle the catch, hold out long enough for the pass rush to get home.

Ultimately that scheme led to 31st ranked pass D.

Now Haden and Hilton are players who can tighten those throwing windows. We can sit and debate is the pass rush better because of the front or the coverage. Truth is they work together. If the D backfield can buy 2 seconds with coverage or take away the primary and secondary options that’s a big win up front.


Hilton was an UDFA and Haden was a gift from Browns.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:41 am 
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steelclan wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Haden and Hilton show that you can’t cover up your secondary with scheme and hope to be effective. The lebeau system went and got guys from late rounds, taught them the system, keep the play in front, tackle the catch, hold out long enough for the pass rush to get home.

Ultimately that scheme led to 31st ranked pass D.

Now Haden and Hilton are players who can tighten those throwing windows. We can sit and debate is the pass rush better because of the front or the coverage. Truth is they work together. If the D backfield can buy 2 seconds with coverage or take away the primary and secondary options that’s a big win up front.


Hilton was an UDFA and Haden was a gift from Browns.
Haden was acquired before Coates was traded, yes? I wonder if it was a gift or simply a swap for what each team needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:19 pm 
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SteelerChef wrote:
I think Burns will be a place holder for Allen or Sutton


Are you drunk or high?


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:25 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
steelclan wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Haden and Hilton show that you can’t cover up your secondary with scheme and hope to be effective. The lebeau system went and got guys from late rounds, taught them the system, keep the play in front, tackle the catch, hold out long enough for the pass rush to get home.

Ultimately that scheme led to 31st ranked pass D.

Now Haden and Hilton are players who can tighten those throwing windows. We can sit and debate is the pass rush better because of the front or the coverage. Truth is they work together. If the D backfield can buy 2 seconds with coverage or take away the primary and secondary options that’s a big win up front.


Hilton was an UDFA and Haden was a gift from Browns.
Haden was acquired before Coates was traded, yes? I wonder if it was a gift or simply a swap for what each team needed.


Haden was released without the browns HC being told beforehand. Talk about bad management. No wonder Cleveland is back in the crapper once again.

Hilton was a find, might prove to be biggest find since Ike.

But yeah steelers got lucky that both guys are here now.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:42 pm 
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it's still yggy wrote:
Haden was released without the browns HC being told beforehand. Talk about bad management. No wonder Cleveland is back in the crapper once again.
"Back in the crapper" implies they were out of it at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Haden was released without the browns HC being told beforehand. Talk about bad management. No wonder Cleveland is back in the crapper once again.
"Back in the crapper" implies they were out of it at some point.


Considering all the hoopla for the coach and the optimism for the owner and management team, man, their record is actually worse than usual during this regime's tenure. Turns out that light was the oncoming train, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Pabst wrote:
it's still yggy wrote:
Haden was released without the browns HC being told beforehand. Talk about bad management. No wonder Cleveland is back in the crapper once again.
"Back in the crapper" implies they were out of it at some point.


Considering all the hoopla for the coach and the optimism for the owner and management team, man, their record is actually worse than usual during this regime's tenure. Turns out that light was the oncoming train, after all.

Yep. Same coach, owner, and management team that passed on Carson Wentz... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Yep. Same coach, owner, and management team that passed on Carson Wentz... :lol:

....and Deshaun Watson.

And that's after the prior regime chose Johnny Manziel over Teddy Bridgewater and David Carr.

And that's after the prior regime traded up to draft Trent Richardson

And that's after they passed on Julio Jones to take Phil Taylor and an extra first round draft pick.....which became Brandon Weeden.


My God, the Browns suck.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Yep. Same coach, owner, and management team that passed on Carson Wentz... :lol:

....and Deshaun Watson.

And that's after the prior regime chose Johnny Manziel over Teddy Bridgewater and David Carr.

And that's after the prior regime traded up to draft Trent Richardson

And that's after they passed on Julio Jones to take Phil Taylor and an extra first round draft pick.....which became Brandon Weeden.


My God, the Browns suck.


Jesus, when you lay it out like that

What a complete cluster fuck of a franchise

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Jobus Rum wrote:
Yep. Same coach, owner, and management team that passed on Carson Wentz... :lol:

....and Deshaun Watson.

And that's after the prior regime chose Johnny Manziel over Teddy Bridgewater and David Carr.

And that's after the prior regime traded up to draft Trent Richardson

And that's after they passed on Julio Jones to take Phil Taylor and an extra first round draft pick.....which became Brandon Weeden.


My God, the Browns suck.


The Browns biggest fuck up the last 15 years was choosing Kellen Winslow II over Ben Roethlisberger.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:08 pm 
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I'd be interested how many fuck ups you believe the Browns have had over a 15 year period, Frac. Conservatively I'd say they average about three medium to huge fuck ups per year, putting them somewhere around 45.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'd be interested how many fuck ups you believe the Browns have had over a 15 year period, Frac. Conservatively I'd say they average about three medium to huge fuck ups per year, putting them somewhere around 45.

I think that's a very conservative estimation :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:55 pm 
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I'm considering, for instance, giving Joe Haden to a division rival in desperate need of proven CBs to get to the next level on defense for next to nothing a medium sized fuck up.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Drafting Deshone Kizer, medium-large.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Handling the QB situation so far this season, large.

So there's three.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'm considering, for instance, giving Joe Haden to a division rival in desperate need of proven CBs to get to the next level on defense for next to nothing a medium sized fuck up.


They did not give him to the Steelers but the FO cut him without the approval of the coaching staff. Hue made it clear he was unhappy with the move. But that is the moneyball way. Don't worry. We have a 3 year plan

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:24 pm 
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If Stains win 2 or less this season, does Hue Jackson survive?

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Considering his reputation coming in was as an offensive/QB guru, I'm not sure his handling of that situation is even remotely defensible.


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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
If Stains win 2 or less this season, does Hue Jackson survive?

They'd probably hire Marvin Lewis.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Ice wrote:
I'd be interested how many fuck ups you believe the Browns have had over a 15 year period, Frac. Conservatively I'd say they average about three medium to huge fuck ups per year, putting them somewhere around 45.

Just looking at the draft since 2004:

2004 - Need a QB. Pass on Roethlisberger and take Kellen Winslow
2005 - Need a QB. Pass on Aaron Rodgers and take Braylon Edwards
2006 - Take Kameron Wimbley over Haloti Ngata
2007 - Select Joe Thomas; then trade half their next draft to select Brady Quinn
2008 - No pick until Round 4
2009 - Alex Mack
2010 - Joe Haden
2011 - Trade their pick to Atlanta (Julio Jones). Draft Phil Taylor
2012 - Move up to take Trent Richardson. Use the pick acquired in the Julio Jones trade to get Brandon Weeden
2013 - Barkevious Mingo. They get a slight pass here since this was a terrible draft class overall
2014 - Justin Gilbert and traded up for Johnny Manziel. The Raiders, drafting one spot later, took Khalil Mack and David Carr
2015 - Danny Shelton & Cam Erving
2016 - Traded down. Eagles take Carson Wentz
2017 - Traded down. Texans take Deshaun Watson.

2010 was really their only good draft class over this time span (Joe Haden, TJ Ward, and Shawn Luavo). 07 and 09 were bad outside of their top picks. And the remaining drafts were near total busts.

2014 was legendary bad...not just because they took 2 colossal busts in Gilbert and Manziel, but because the Raiders turned their franchise around with the very next picks.

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 Post subject: Re: Haden & Hilton
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:50 am 
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wGfLFmlU8zo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBmzPUI-Qs

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