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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:10 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
treat88 wrote:
Steeler fan years are a lot like dog years. They age ya fast.

Love this team but, man....it always seems to be harder than it should be.




like swiss has often said...we suffer thru the games/wins


Exactly right, Greek. We don't enjoy these games. We suffer through them, hope we're happy in the end.




yup...and that was tonight to a tee


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:12 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
I saw wide open receivers tonight.


So did I. Along with a QB who, while not perfect EVERY play, had a pretty damn good game.

You guys were creaming yourself over Stafford....he had just as many guys open, and missed just as many throws. And he scored less points. Stafford, if you read the game thread, was great. They pretty much played equally. But Ben sucked. That is Steeler fan reverse-schadenfreude.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:20 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
bam morris wrote:
win is a win..very fortunate..a bit lucky...definitely ugly...but it counts..
I'm glad as heck lions went for the td with a bit over 2 min left..if me I kick the fg.. and let steelers turtle and get ball back needing a winning fg with over a min. way our defense was giving up huge yards and there very good long distant kicker I like their chances.. thank u lions!


Some think so, Bam. Fourth down followed the 2-minute warning, so you kick the FG, Steelers pick up 1st down on a 3rd down play, with all three Steeler plays not involving a clock stoppage, and the game would be over.

As it was, had Lions kicked the FG, they still lose 20-18, not getting the ball back.

Either way is defensible, though.

yes..they kick then..down 2...steelers get ball at 25..we all know they turtle and hem haw...pressure on they wither and don't get first..lions ball at their 40 with no timeouts..min to play they only need a completion or 2 and a spike..to get in position for a 50-55 yarder..lions looked worse to me in red zone then steelers..I was worried about the fg scenario more then the 4th and game one..


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:23 am 
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Honestly.....a game of broken and blown coverages.

If you take that away, I have no idea what to make of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:27 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
I just don't understand that decision. I don't care how good AB is, throws into triple coverage are lousy odds.

I'd say he didn't see the safety or didn't think safety would get there. Probably the worst throw of Ben's season to date.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:32 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'd say he didn't see the safety or didn't think safety would get there. Probably the worst throw of Ben's season to date.


Depends on how you define "bad throw". There was a window, he missed it by a good 2-3 feet (40 yards downfield). Much more bad decision than bad throw, in my book.

I think he's made worse decisions and made worse throws. Just such a low chance of success there that you question why throw it in the firs tplace.

I actually think Ben's been quite a bit better than given credit for this year. When the offense struggles, every throw is under a microscope. There are 7-8 plays that could have easily gone the other way and perceptions would be very different. Been said many times and been made painfully obvious - the standards Steeler fans hold the QB to are achievable by very few QB's...ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:34 am 
Kodiak wrote:

I actually think Ben's been quite a bit better than given credit for this year. When the offense struggles, every throw is under a microscope. There are 7-8 plays that could have easily gone the other way and perceptions would be very different. Been said many times and been made painfully obvious - the standards Steeler fans hold the QB to are achievable by very few QB's...ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:30 am 
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SteelerChef wrote:
Kodiak wrote:

I actually think Ben's been quite a bit better than given credit for this year. When the offense struggles, every throw is under a microscope. There are 7-8 plays that could have easily gone the other way and perceptions would be very different. Been said many times and been made painfully obvious - the standards Steeler fans hold the QB to are achievable by very few QB's...ever.


Uh...I'd just like him to play like last year...which was no HOF year...maybe the 3rd best year of his career...and just a good year in the grand history of the NFL.

So it's not only achievable...it's pretty common.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:41 am 
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ChicagoSteel wrote:
Uh...I'd just like him to play like last year...which was no HOF year...maybe the 3rd best year of his career...and just a good year in the grand history of the NFL.

So it's not only achievable...it's pretty common.


LMFAO.....Yeah, if Ben was just having your typically good HOFer year it'd be no sweat. When your QB has to play like an absolute star for your offense to work he's probably not the problem.

His decision-making and throws are still better than 2/3 of the league. He's not the problem, and he'd look a hell of a lot better with good playcalling and guys catching balls that hit their hands and running their routes so they're where they're supposed to be.

Stafford also missed some key throws tonight, and managed like 15 points on offense. Some of you thought he played well, while you also thought Ben played poorly. They had very, very similar games, but those perceptions are a classic example of unrealistic yinzer expectations of the QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:49 am 
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bam morris wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
bam morris wrote:
win is a win..very fortunate..a bit lucky...definitely ugly...but it counts..
I'm glad as heck lions went for the td with a bit over 2 min left..if me I kick the fg.. and let steelers turtle and get ball back needing a winning fg with over a min. way our defense was giving up huge yards and there very good long distant kicker I like their chances.. thank u lions!


Some think so, Bam. Fourth down followed the 2-minute warning, so you kick the FG, Steelers pick up 1st down on a 3rd down play, with all three Steeler plays not involving a clock stoppage, and the game would be over.

As it was, had Lions kicked the FG, they still lose 20-18, not getting the ball back.

Either way is defensible, though.

yes..they kick then..down 2...steelers get ball at 25..we all know they turtle and hem haw...pressure on they wither and don't get first..lions ball at their 40 with no timeouts..min to play they only need a completion or 2 and a spike..to get in position for a 50-55 yarder..lions looked worse to me in red zone then steelers..I was worried about the fg scenario more then the 4th and game one..


Caldwell may have been looking at it this way:
*Kicking the FG gives his team ONE chance to win the game, meaning they cannot allow the Steelers to register a first down on the subsequent possession.
*Going for the TD gives his team TWO chances to win the game:
-Score the TD on the 4th down, or....
-Steelers are pinned inside their own 10...hold them to 3 & out, get the ball back in good field position

The downside, of course, is that Caldwell exercising the option he did required his team to score a touchdown to win, in either of their two chances. And, scoring a TD was something they had failed to do all night. Don't know what the percentages of converting on 4th & 7 from the 8, but they're certainly below 50 percent.

If I'm a Lions fan, I still like my odds better of hitting on that 4th down pass than needing my defense to go 3 & out in order to win, knowing that if I don't convert the 3rd down pass, but hold Steelers to 3 & out, I still have a chance. Problem, of course, is that Lions did neither....did NOT convert 4th & 7, followed by NOT holding Steelers to 3 & out, in fact allowed two consecutive 3rd down conversions.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:44 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I saw wide open receivers tonight.


So did I. Along with a QB who, while not perfect EVERY play, had a pretty damn good game.

You guys were creaming yourself over Stafford....he had just as many guys open, and missed just as many throws. And he scored less points. Stafford, if you read the game thread, was great. They pretty much played equally. But Ben sucked. That is Steeler fan reverse-schadenfreude.


Sooner or later, you'll stop rationalizing what is a decline in Ben's play.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:04 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I saw wide open receivers tonight.


So did I. Along with a QB who, while not perfect EVERY play, had a pretty damn good game.

You guys were creaming yourself over Stafford....he had just as many guys open, and missed just as many throws. And he scored less points. Stafford, if you read the game thread, was great. They pretty much played equally. But Ben sucked. That is Steeler fan reverse-schadenfreude.


Sooner or later, you'll stop rationalizing what is a decline in Ben's play.


It’ll take longer than it might because of the plethora of other excuses people can point to.

All of which might be true at the same time it’s true that Ben’s play is below the line.

And I don’t want to hear we have unreasonable expectations.

We’re not asking for the impossible from Ben. That’s bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:11 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
I saw wide open receivers tonight.


So did I. Along with a QB who, while not perfect EVERY play, had a pretty damn good game.

You guys were creaming yourself over Stafford....he had just as many guys open, and missed just as many throws. And he scored less points. Stafford, if you read the game thread, was great. They pretty much played equally. But Ben sucked. That is Steeler fan reverse-schadenfreude.


So where's the Haley love??? Oh thats right Kodiak rule 1. QB always great OC always terrible, if we win it's due to the QB over coming terrible play calling :lol: :lol:

For the record in my opinion I think both the QB and the OC were above the line, however it is evident the QB is in decline and this is very likely our last run with this guy and I really really hope it works out positively for the Steelers. Good way to ride off into the sunset.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:56 am 
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I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:35 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


There was nothing ticky tack about the OPI call. It was a penalty. I agree there was a lot of other stuff let go (predominantly by the Lions DB's) but that does not condone what AB did, he pushed off, clearly, to get the separation.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:40 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


There was nothing ticky tack about the OPI call. It was a penalty. I agree there was a lot of other stuff let go (predominantly by the Lions DB's) but that does not condone what AB did, he pushed off, clearly, to get the separation.

Agreed, it's a text book call when your arms are extended.

The blame for the Offense should fall on everybody.

Drops by Rogers and Juju.
Fumble by Bell.
Ben with brutal decisions/throws for INT, missing DHB, missing James (blessing in disguise though), one hopping the WR screen in the first half.

Add all that up and you're leaving a minimum of 10 points on the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:51 am 
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seabs926 wrote:
Stinger8 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


There was nothing ticky tack about the OPI call. It was a penalty. I agree there was a lot of other stuff let go (predominantly by the Lions DB's) but that does not condone what AB did, he pushed off, clearly, to get the separation.

Agreed, it's a text book call when your arms are extended.

The blame for the Offense should fall on everybody.

Drops by Rogers and Juju.
Fumble by Bell.
Ben with brutal decisions/throws for INT, missing DHB, missing James (blessing in disguise though), one hopping the WR screen in the first half.

Add all that up and you're leaving a minimum of 10 points on the board.


Absolutely....remember SB XL


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:54 am 
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Stinger8 wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


There was nothing ticky tack about the OPI call. It was a penalty. I agree there was a lot of other stuff let go (predominantly by the Lions DB's) but that does not condone what AB did, he pushed off, clearly, to get the separation.


I see Gronk / Graham make that move every Sunday with no call. You might call it textbook; it can be both textbook and ticky-tack (i.e., difference between de jure rules and de facto rules). Add in all of the contact they permitted in the game itself, and yeah it was ticky-tack.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:58 am 
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I thought AB pushed off on the 49 yard bomb in Q1 as well. A minor push, but looked like a push.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:04 am 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


I don't think so. I do not think Ben is the only problem on offense. But he is clearly playing like a regressed player to my eyes; regressed relative to his historical self. What looks like Ben hate on my part is me pushing back on arguments that seek to absolve Ben of all blame or that tell that Ben is actually playing quite well and is just surrounded by shit, which just miserably fails the eye test.

Ben has not suddenly turned into a bottom feeder, but he's playing at the top of the middle pack right now. Dude is not playing great and not even sniffing elite.

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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


I don't think so. I do not think Ben is the only problem on offense. But he is clearly playing like a regressed player to my eyes; regressed relative to his historical self. What looks like Ben hate on my part is me pushing back on arguments that seek to absolve Ben of all blame or that tell that Ben is actually playing quite well and is just surrounded by shit, which just miserably fails the eye test.

Ben has not suddenly turned into a bottom feeder, but he's playing at the top of the middle pack right now. Dude is not playing great and not even sniffing elite.


Many of you have not moved forward from the Jaguar embarrassment. I've taken keen notice. The deplorable taste of the five pick unraveling has permeated this board, and there is no turning back, no resolution. Now, every one of Ben's passes are under a hyperbolic microscope. It's a shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


I don't think so. I do not think Ben is the only problem on offense. But he is clearly playing like a regressed player to my eyes; regressed relative to his historical self. What looks like Ben hate on my part is me pushing back on arguments that seek to absolve Ben of all blame or that tell that Ben is actually playing quite well and is just surrounded by shit, which just miserably fails the eye test.

Ben has not suddenly turned into a bottom feeder, but he's playing at the top of the middle pack right now. Dude is not playing great and not even sniffing elite.


Well...no one would've shat on a 300 yard 3 TD, 1 INT performance. That easily could've happened. And it wasn't all (perhaps even mostly) Ben's fault as to why it didn't happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Reg. Season #8: Steelers @ Lions Game Comments
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:53 am 
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Stillchest wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
I thought there were a few throws Ben would want back. I think everyone is singing a different tune if Eli doesn't drop a wide-open TD and Brown isn't called for a ticky tack OPI. Ben's stat sheet at least would've looked good... The miss to DHB was inexcusable though... Really an awful play.


I don't think so. I do not think Ben is the only problem on offense. But he is clearly playing like a regressed player to my eyes; regressed relative to his historical self. What looks like Ben hate on my part is me pushing back on arguments that seek to absolve Ben of all blame or that tell that Ben is actually playing quite well and is just surrounded by shit, which just miserably fails the eye test.

Ben has not suddenly turned into a bottom feeder, but he's playing at the top of the middle pack right now. Dude is not playing great and not even sniffing elite.


Many of you have not moved forward from the Jaguar embarrassment. I've taken keen notice. The deplorable taste of the five pick unraveling has permeated this board, and there is no turning back, no resolution. Now, every one of Ben's passes are under a hyperbolic microscope. It's a shame.

His game vs Jaguars wasn't even that bad, other than outcomes.

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